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In case any of you missed this long, reflective interview (from just before he joined us) it's a fascinating watch: he comes across as so unusual in his background, thoughtful and highly intelligent, and full of respect for others - a gent. It's also interesting to note all his QPR links going back to our greatest side and the ex and future Rs he managed at that other Rangers, whoever they are.
[Post edited 21 Nov 2021 17:48]
Hadders - thanks for posting and agree with all your comments. A great insight into Warbs - compelling viewing. An hour well spent. Definitely worth watching. He certainly reminds me of the great Gordon Jago - another gent with great principals. As said many times - hope Warbs stays with us for years. And so very heartening to hear that he wants to manage in the Premier League. And the only way that is likely to happen is with a club like us.
Wow what a load of tosh Best since venables are you for real ?? You forgotten about Don Howe , Gerry , even Jim smith has achieved more , Warburton hasn’t done anything yet As for warnock our youth team was a joke at the time and this myth about not developing players is poor & lazy , Adel hasn’t done anything since that season with us and who got the best out of him oh yeah warnock , who was it who got the best football out of hill & Derry two journeymen players , mmmm could be warnock , who bought a novice young striker called Jamie mackie and made him a cult hero , yeah that’s warnock Ale faurlin played his best football under warnock ,and heider was going no where at Rangers until warnock came in and made him a cult hero to And for good measure he won a league title to boot
Like you PP I love Warnock for that season he gave us but it has to be said that the point about about him not developing youth players is a valid one, not just at QPR but his other clubs as well.
I know in recent years he's tended to be used by clubs in a troubleshooting role, usually to stop them getting relegated, but if you look at his career before coming to us there aren't that many players I can think of where's he's brought through players from a youth team and developed them into first team regulars.
At Sheff Utd for example where he was manager for eight years I can only really think of Jagielka and Tonge. Paddy Kenny although not a youth team development was a discovery of his in non league when managing Bury.
Yep, we won the league with Warnock, so you can only go that far back. Warnock was brilliant at getting the best out of most players, in particular Adel, obviously. Not sure you can credit him too much with getting the best out of Hill and Derry - superb signings, but they do their job, they're a manager's dream by that age, you don't need to do much with them, and that is what Warnock relies on: good, solid, experienced pros who know their job and do it well. The side he built for us was probably the best side he ever built, because on top of that solidity, which he brings everywhere, he had class he never had at any other club in Ale, Akos, Adel etc. He was also backed well in the market. Warbs a totally different manager, the right choice when we got him and the right choice now. The problem with Warnock is that his sides are mainly about the short term - nothing wrong with that, very few managers can get the sort of instant success he manages, but it shows when he gets into the Prem. Reliance on older pros isn't enough there, solidity doesn't stop you getting relegated. For what it's worth, I think he may have kept us up that season, and have always said it was a ridiculous sacking. In terms of developing players, Warbs is a better coach, with more long term thinking. This time last year people on here had written off Willock and Dykes, now two of our key players. We're already seeing Dozzell make huge strides in the last month, another sign that Warbs is managing him really well. I don't think Warnock quite has that skill, but they're different styles, almost like comparing a striker and a defender - they both play football, and are effective, but in different ways. Warbs and Warnock both manage, Warnock with more actual success, but are very different managers. Going back to Venners is a bit much. I think Warbs is a better manager than Ollie, but Ollie was incredible for us. Gerry Francis was fantastic, you definitely can't go back further than that. But, hopefully, it's still early days!
Are we confusing achievements with overall capabilities here?
Warnock did well with what he had in the time he had, but he also had the significant benefit of a far bigger relative budget than Warburton has today. Warnock was able to put his team together rapidly with ready made acquisitions - not a skill to be sniffed at, as we saw in the subsequent years - but Warburton has been obliged to go for younger prospects and develop them.
Yep, we won the league with Warnock, so you can only go that far back. Warnock was brilliant at getting the best out of most players, in particular Adel, obviously. Not sure you can credit him too much with getting the best out of Hill and Derry - superb signings, but they do their job, they're a manager's dream by that age, you don't need to do much with them, and that is what Warnock relies on: good, solid, experienced pros who know their job and do it well. The side he built for us was probably the best side he ever built, because on top of that solidity, which he brings everywhere, he had class he never had at any other club in Ale, Akos, Adel etc. He was also backed well in the market. Warbs a totally different manager, the right choice when we got him and the right choice now. The problem with Warnock is that his sides are mainly about the short term - nothing wrong with that, very few managers can get the sort of instant success he manages, but it shows when he gets into the Prem. Reliance on older pros isn't enough there, solidity doesn't stop you getting relegated. For what it's worth, I think he may have kept us up that season, and have always said it was a ridiculous sacking. In terms of developing players, Warbs is a better coach, with more long term thinking. This time last year people on here had written off Willock and Dykes, now two of our key players. We're already seeing Dozzell make huge strides in the last month, another sign that Warbs is managing him really well. I don't think Warnock quite has that skill, but they're different styles, almost like comparing a striker and a defender - they both play football, and are effective, but in different ways. Warbs and Warnock both manage, Warnock with more actual success, but are very different managers. Going back to Venners is a bit much. I think Warbs is a better manager than Ollie, but Ollie was incredible for us. Gerry Francis was fantastic, you definitely can't go back further than that. But, hopefully, it's still early days!
Yes.
There's a difference between getting the best out of players, which Warnock undoubtedly did, and developing them. The first involves them playing consistently at the best they can, given their knowledge and skill level. The second involves actually improving their knowledge of the game, fitness levels and footballing skills. With the latter you'd expect the players to continue to play at that higher level when they leave the club.
Amazing that a few like to revise the impact Neil Warnock had when he took over. QPR were all over the place when he came in: the man did an astonishing job and exceeded all expectations. Virtually nobody thought signing Hill, Derry, Kenny etc was worthwhile, and Warnock brilliantly managed to get the very best out of Adel when no other manager could.
Warburton is doing well and had been better than numerous chancers we have had but he has a long way to go to be called one our best.
Are we confusing achievements with overall capabilities here?
Warnock did well with what he had in the time he had, but he also had the significant benefit of a far bigger relative budget than Warburton has today. Warnock was able to put his team together rapidly with ready made acquisitions - not a skill to be sniffed at, as we saw in the subsequent years - but Warburton has been obliged to go for younger prospects and develop them.
..... apart from the four loan signings from last season we signed in the summer.
Amazing that a few like to revise the impact Neil Warnock had when he took over. QPR were all over the place when he came in: the man did an astonishing job and exceeded all expectations. Virtually nobody thought signing Hill, Derry, Kenny etc was worthwhile, and Warnock brilliantly managed to get the very best out of Adel when no other manager could.
Warburton is doing well and had been better than numerous chancers we have had but he has a long way to go to be called one our best.
Do show me one place where anyone has denied any of that, Ned. That's literally what 100% of our fans think of Warnock.
What is worth noting, though, is that as big a mess as we were in it was, remarkably, the same season where we absolutely destroyed Preston, Reading and Derby in one week, scoring 12 goals in the progress. NW made brilliant signings, a few dodgy ones too, but that team had already had enormous investment, and another big summer after he took over. Incredibly shrewd management and his pursuit of Adel was inspired, but even he has said he couldn't believe the quality available when he walked in to the club.
1. Gerry Francis 2. Terry Venables 3. Neil Warnock
Very pleased with Mark Warbuton and i hope he is with us for a good few years but in that list, he's level 42 mark king compared to Mark Adams, John Entwistle, Larry Kimple and Jack Bruce . At the Moment.
Are we confusing achievements with overall capabilities here?
Warnock did well with what he had in the time he had, but he also had the significant benefit of a far bigger relative budget than Warburton has today. Warnock was able to put his team together rapidly with ready made acquisitions - not a skill to be sniffed at, as we saw in the subsequent years - but Warburton has been obliged to go for younger prospects and develop them.
Achievements and overall capabilities Warnock wins on both fronts. How many promotions has Warnock had in his career?. I think Warnock is pretty capable regardless of league or finance. We can dress up all the stats, sports analyst, bringing youth players through but all that counts for nothing if you're not winning or achieving anything. I'm a big fan of Warburton but I don't think we should start comparing him to Warnock just yet. I guess the remit is different. Warnocks was to gain promotion and Warburtons is to help balance the books and make us more self sustainable while playing attractive football.
1. Gerry Francis 2. Terry Venables 3. Neil Warnock
Very pleased with Mark Warbuton and i hope he is with us for a good few years but in that list, he's level 42 mark king compared to Mark Adams, John Entwistle, Larry Kimple and Jack Bruce . At the Moment.
Wow what a load of tosh Best since venables are you for real ?? You forgotten about Don Howe , Gerry , even Jim smith has achieved more , Warburton hasn’t done anything yet As for warnock our youth team was a joke at the time and this myth about not developing players is poor & lazy , Adel hasn’t done anything since that season with us and who got the best out of him oh yeah warnock , who was it who got the best football out of hill & Derry two journeymen players , mmmm could be warnock , who bought a novice young striker called Jamie mackie and made him a cult hero , yeah that’s warnock Ale faurlin played his best football under warnock ,and heider was going no where at Rangers until warnock came in and made him a cult hero to And for good measure he won a league title to boot
Unfair on Adel. He's won the Portuguese League and their equivalent of the Community Shield. Also playing in the Champions League and featured last night against Barcelona.
Warnock built a team to be successful in the short term. Neil had to deal with naive and difficult owners and a poor structure in the club.
Warburton is building a club to be competitive in the short term and sustainable for the future. Mark has much more sensible owners and a good structure in place to work with.
Wow what a load of tosh Best since venables are you for real ?? You forgotten about Don Howe , Gerry , even Jim smith has achieved more , Warburton hasn’t done anything yet As for warnock our youth team was a joke at the time and this myth about not developing players is poor & lazy , Adel hasn’t done anything since that season with us and who got the best out of him oh yeah warnock , who was it who got the best football out of hill & Derry two journeymen players , mmmm could be warnock , who bought a novice young striker called Jamie mackie and made him a cult hero , yeah that’s warnock Ale faurlin played his best football under warnock ,and heider was going no where at Rangers until warnock came in and made him a cult hero to And for good measure he won a league title to boot
Adel played against Barcelona in Champions League last night.
For me, different horses for different courses. Warnock most successful manager of my lifetime, alongside Holloway.
Wouldn’t want either to rebuild our club from root to branch post Redknapp / Hughes.
Warbs develops players and has changed our style so we can compete even when new play badly.
He has recruited well with Moses, Barbs, Wallace being players he has brought in. Even his duds in Kelly was still a sellable asset for us.
He has got rid of players who do not want to play for us, Manning, Kane, BOS, Niko and although not his fault Lums.
He has developed players into the first team such as BOS, Dieng, Chair, Willock, Field, Dunne, Amos and even Kakay.
He has even managed to make players like Ball, better than really they should. We shall all laugh one day as Ball is sold for silly money to Ipswich.
His tactics in-game are a work in progress, but in the main, a team that always scores (as we do) always has a chance of winning. You will also notice that the clean sheets are increasing now as well.
Recruitment with Les and Hoos has been exceptional. Bargains are found everywhere, including the latest with JoJo. Unlike the past whereby we would have spunked the Eze money on some Prem rubbish. Even our loans have been decent to the extent that recruitment has been so good, we now need less loans than before. In the past we have needed 2-3 loans for forward alone, now we only have 1 forward on loan.
In the past when we sold Freeman, everyone was worried that we may go down. Now if we sell Chair or Willock, we shall be very upset, but none of us really think we shall go down.
Warbs has provided squad safety with results and developed assets for the club. With the training ground to come, we are looking in a much better position as many other clubs implode around us.
Warbs develops players and has changed our style so we can compete even when new play badly.
He has recruited well with Moses, Barbs, Wallace being players he has brought in. Even his duds in Kelly was still a sellable asset for us.
He has got rid of players who do not want to play for us, Manning, Kane, BOS, Niko and although not his fault Lums.
He has developed players into the first team such as BOS, Dieng, Chair, Willock, Field, Dunne, Amos and even Kakay.
He has even managed to make players like Ball, better than really they should. We shall all laugh one day as Ball is sold for silly money to Ipswich.
His tactics in-game are a work in progress, but in the main, a team that always scores (as we do) always has a chance of winning. You will also notice that the clean sheets are increasing now as well.
Recruitment with Les and Hoos has been exceptional. Bargains are found everywhere, including the latest with JoJo. Unlike the past whereby we would have spunked the Eze money on some Prem rubbish. Even our loans have been decent to the extent that recruitment has been so good, we now need less loans than before. In the past we have needed 2-3 loans for forward alone, now we only have 1 forward on loan.
In the past when we sold Freeman, everyone was worried that we may go down. Now if we sell Chair or Willock, we shall be very upset, but none of us really think we shall go down.
Warbs has provided squad safety with results and developed assets for the club. With the training ground to come, we are looking in a much better position as many other clubs implode around us.
We are also now attractive to young players looking for a team to break through with. It's not that long ago that anyone we loaned out was almost invariably to a lower National League team and not to L1/ L2 teams.
Best since Terry Venables IMO. Warnock had money to spend and was poor at developing the youth so he drops out. if MW could just acquire the defensive nous that Venables had he would be one of the best ever at W12. This of course may change as we become more & more financially stable and money is available for Dickie or Barbet style defenders with plenty of pace.
Warnock was given a huge war chest. That's been almost erased from memory but the reality is that it would have been a lot harder not to get promoted in 2011 than it was to go up.
Accusations that we bought our place in the Premier League were well founded in my opinion.
Warnock was given a huge war chest. That's been almost erased from memory but the reality is that it would have been a lot harder not to get promoted in 2011 than it was to go up.
Accusations that we bought our place in the Premier League were well founded in my opinion.
Can't deny we wern't well backed:
What a season it was though. Look at Forest, Birmingham, and Derby for reasons it was still a hell of an achievement.
[Post edited 24 Nov 2021 18:24]
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Mark Warburton (n/t) on 18:34 - Nov 24 with 1622 views
This morning we are 4th in the table. The three clubs above us have budgets multiple times greater than ours, which is relatively small compared to many other clubs in the Championship. So Warburton is cooking up some pretty amazing magic.
I find it hard to compare him to managers over the decades but he is cetainly up there with the better ones.
What a season it was though. Look at Forest, Birmingham, and Derby for reasons it was still a hell of an achievement.
[Post edited 24 Nov 2021 18:24]
It was a great season but for me it did and does feel hollow.
I was raised with a notion of QPR being a club which did things the 'right' way and effectively buying success is not something I am comfortable with. We had also become a 'boutique' club by 2010 with a new badge and ticket prices which ensured many loyal fans were excluded from attending matches.
I can understand why after 15 years since we had last played in the Premier League many were just happy to get back there, but I'll enjoy it more if it happens under Warburton as we have done it the 'QPR way'.
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