| QPR Finances released 06:25 - Feb 28 with 52210 views | Jeff |
From Kieran Maguire in the Twitter:
[Post edited 28 Feb 2023 6:29]
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| QPR Finances released on 13:12 - Feb 28 with 2543 views | BostonR |
Whilst this is miserable reading at what point do the clubs and owners face-down the EFL on FFP rules? In its current format it's killing the game below the PL and the PL are fueling the imbalance with parachute payments.
In a free capitalist society why allow the EFL to dictate how an individual or a group of investor's spend their cash?
There needs to be a re-balancing and quick otherwise the game is finished. I can only imagine there are lawyers out there ready to take this on - what have we got to lose? |  | | |
| QPR Finances released on 13:13 - Feb 28 with 2527 views | DejR_vu |
| QPR Finances released on 12:27 - Feb 28 by daveB |
you can be sure if we did it then we'd find a way to break the rules in doing so |
Cast Iron Guaranteed. And we'd be charged with trafficking |  |
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| QPR Finances released on 13:13 - Feb 28 with 2525 views | OldPedro |
| QPR Finances released on 09:36 - Feb 28 by MelakaRanger |
Players , Managers, Coaches increased from 113 to 136 in just 12 months. 23 extra! They cost on average £176,000 each per year.
So 23 extra at average of £176k = extra cost of £4million 1 Why do we need 23 more?
We seriously need to cut our cloth. And the whole of the Football League needs to re-evaluate the wages paid to players. There will be a number of our players on £10k or more per week. Who if anyone at QPR is worth paying half a million £s a year for?
Since Sky/Premiership came along 30 years ago the wages of players have lost all sence of reality - even more so in the Premiership.
But down here in the 'real world' the whole Football league needs to get real. How can any business pay out more than its income on wages along? Any normal business would go bust.
Rubens main business in Malaysia would never allow wages to get anywhere near income, like I say it would go bust. So why do Football clubs get treated differently? Why do (it appears) the majority of fans of clubs not 'get it'.
I think that FFP should be even more severe. On a rolling 3 years why shouldnt it be a zero loss?
And surely QPR cannot need even 113 players coaches and managers?
If we had say 80 in total (an arbitary figure) and the average annual wage was £120K (still a massive wage in the real world, our wages bill would only - yes only - be around 10 million. Nearly 15 million less that last years bill.
I love QPR. I've supported them since 1967. Football needs to take a reality check. Clubs are a business and if you keep making losses you should go bust |
Agree with all of this. The majority of football league clubs shouldn't be paying the wages to players that they pay - they simply can't afford it. |  |
| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| QPR Finances released on 13:24 - Feb 28 with 2420 views | Benny_the_Ball |
"QPR bought players for £2.8m and had sales of £250k."
Hmmm.... |  | | |
| QPR Finances released on 13:32 - Feb 28 with 2341 views | sprocket |
Only possibly 2 players we have worth any kind of money (Chair/Dieng) and unless a premiership team comes calling we won't get much. We have the sell on clause for Eze but he's not getting much game time so how much is he worth and will he be sold?
For the life of me I can't see a way out of this... Looks desperate situation and being in L1 won't help either!!!
Doomed!!! | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 13:38 - Feb 28 with 2279 views | Northernr |
| QPR Finances released on 13:32 - Feb 28 by sprocket |
Only possibly 2 players we have worth any kind of money (Chair/Dieng) and unless a premiership team comes calling we won't get much. We have the sell on clause for Eze but he's not getting much game time so how much is he worth and will he be sold?
For the life of me I can't see a way out of this... Looks desperate situation and being in L1 won't help either!!!
Doomed!!! |
You cut the wage bill. We overpay. Macauley Bonne is not an isolated case.
197 people earning £27m a year is absolutely killing us. It's not transfer fees, it's wages. We've let it creep up again since Eze left having got it below £20m p/a which was manageable under FFP. If the club was paying salaries in line with its income we'd probably be in League One, but you've certainly got to take £10m off where it is now. Looking at the state of the team, can you take £10m of salary off that and survive? Again, lots of other clubs doing just fine paying less, but would/could we? |  | | |
| QPR Finances released on 13:41 - Feb 28 with 2262 views | R_from_afar |
| QPR Finances released on 09:37 - Feb 28 by monners1969 |
Have been waiting behind the Sofa for the latest set of results. It sort of explains why Hoos was so defensive in recent interviews.
First up if QPR were just a business the owners would just sell the assets the club has and stop operating. Day to Day we are setting fire to money, there are only 3 real ways out of it...
1. Asset sales - apart from the ground this is obivously just players. and we've been ridiculously unlucky on Willock Chair and Dieng either falling off a cliff form wise or picking up way too many injuries. I cant really see any other sellable assets, which makes my frustration at our Loan strategy even higher. We have to be developing players we own not others FFS.
2. Develop other sources of income. We're stuck in the ground currently - no real scope of this changing over the next 10 years... so what else can we use LR for? concerts? Shared tenancy (Wasps are homeless again, Ealing RFC have aspirations for Prem Rugby but ground too small) NFL wouldnt train on our pitches... I cant really think of other options?
3.Promotion to Prem - more chances of 1 and 2 happening currently
So I think whether we survice this season or not we are circiling the L1 drain. Time to plan for it. No more loans use the players we own in a quicker contract cycle (1 renewal allowed for each player then ditch or invest IF theyve got to the magic 50 appearances mark) rinse repeat.
In the shorter term I'd love to know in all the people we employ do we have a sports Phsycologist? Because if we dont thats something we desperately need and if we do they need sacking and replacing.
Whilst L1 would be even more of a financial debacle I think its coming in the next 2-3 seasons... we are so badly prepared its frightneing |
"In the shorter term I'd love to know in all the people we employ do we have a sports Psychologist?"
Critchley did say they had brought in a psychologist but I have no idea if he/she is still there. If they are, they must be doing a lot of overtime, sigh, sob... |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| QPR Finances released on 13:41 - Feb 28 with 2249 views | Benny_the_Ball |
As per usual with these threads there's a lot of confusion created by a lack of understanding (hardly surprising given the complexity of the subject).
As I understand it, the figures Kieran is reporting are Company accounts, not FFP figures. Given the estimate of 20% disallowable for FFP this would suggest to my layman eyes that QPR are currently within FFP limits. For example, if the cumulative loss for the years 2020 to 2022 is £45m, then the FFP loss for the same period is approximately £36m (which is £3m below the FFP limit of £39m). However, these losses include the Eze sale. If QPR don't generate similar revenue within the next 2 years then the likelihood is that they will breach FFP when the Eze year rolls off the FFP books. Is my understanding correct?
Clive, is it possible for an authority on the subject (e.g. Simon) to provide some headline figures? A simple table that compares Company P/L and FFP P/L for the last 3 years would go a long way to clarifying the situation. | | | |
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| QPR Finances released on 13:44 - Feb 28 with 2233 views | Northernr |
| QPR Finances released on 13:41 - Feb 28 by Benny_the_Ball |
As per usual with these threads there's a lot of confusion created by a lack of understanding (hardly surprising given the complexity of the subject).
As I understand it, the figures Kieran is reporting are Company accounts, not FFP figures. Given the estimate of 20% disallowable for FFP this would suggest to my layman eyes that QPR are currently within FFP limits. For example, if the cumulative loss for the years 2020 to 2022 is £45m, then the FFP loss for the same period is approximately £36m (which is £3m below the FFP limit of £39m). However, these losses include the Eze sale. If QPR don't generate similar revenue within the next 2 years then the likelihood is that they will breach FFP when the Eze year rolls off the FFP books. Is my understanding correct?
Clive, is it possible for an authority on the subject (e.g. Simon) to provide some headline figures? A simple table that compares Company P/L and FFP P/L for the last 3 years would go a long way to clarifying the situation. |
I'm not sure there's a lot of confusion at all, everything you've said there is exactly right. Presently within the limits because of Eze, but you don't stay in the limits for long if you lose £2m a month and you don't have another Eze soon. | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 13:45 - Feb 28 with 2215 views | PinnerPaul |
| QPR Finances released on 12:33 - Feb 28 by slmrstid |
I did say it was a starting point, and as Northern has pointed out with SimonD's own estimates, its not going to be a radically different figure. But the point remains without access to the detailed records, we don't have a clue and its pure guesswork. So you might as well start at £24m and say its worse case, but even best case isn't going to be massively different.
I am a qualified accountant myself but I prefer not to go the arse end of trying to explain things on here because it either goes over people's heads, or you get people who don't know what they're talking about trying to tell you you're wrong.
Kudos to SimonD for willing to go into as much effort as he does in trying to explain further! |
Well its a bit silly to say that all those exceptions that are listed above = £0
People mention the cost of all the staff but all those staff costs associated with youth and the women's teams are exempt for a start.
The training ground IS an asset but the cost still has to hit the P & L at some stage via depreciation doesn't it? | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 13:46 - Feb 28 with 2194 views | DejR_vu |
| QPR Finances released on 13:38 - Feb 28 by Northernr |
You cut the wage bill. We overpay. Macauley Bonne is not an isolated case.
197 people earning £27m a year is absolutely killing us. It's not transfer fees, it's wages. We've let it creep up again since Eze left having got it below £20m p/a which was manageable under FFP. If the club was paying salaries in line with its income we'd probably be in League One, but you've certainly got to take £10m off where it is now. Looking at the state of the team, can you take £10m of salary off that and survive? Again, lots of other clubs doing just fine paying less, but would/could we? |
Presumably, if we could, we would (even this regime isn’t so stupid to consciously, deliberately pay more than is necessary), so the answer must be that we’re not capable. The person / people making the decisions need to change. | |
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| QPR Finances released on 13:49 - Feb 28 with 2155 views | 89_50 |
We should be erecting statues of Eze. Without that money, I'd hate to think where we'd be.
Maybe this is being too simplistic, but does the fault of this largely lay with Hoos?
Having done so well to get things under control, he's seemingly presided over a monumental growth in excess spend. |  | | |
| QPR Finances released on 13:50 - Feb 28 with 2143 views | PinnerPaul |
| QPR Finances released on 13:46 - Feb 28 by DejR_vu |
Presumably, if we could, we would (even this regime isn’t so stupid to consciously, deliberately pay more than is necessary), so the answer must be that we’re not capable. The person / people making the decisions need to change. |
Just to be pedantic, they are not earning £27M per year, its costing the club that including employers Ni and maybe other non cash benefits like life assurance for example.
Plus of course a large slice of that includes tax that goes nowhere near the 'staff' | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 13:51 - Feb 28 with 2133 views | PlanetHonneywood |
I'm sat here shaking my head reading all of this crap, that scores and scores of us had been predicting would be the inevitable consequence of our profligate ways under that bell end of a West Ham fan who waddled into QPR 12 years ago.Ç
It's so incompetent as to lead one to ask if it is actually criminal. How the feck do these clowns justify the rise in personnel that we couldn't afford and square it with piss-poor performance on every level.
Tony Pony has been a living, breathing, walking one-man disaster from Day One. The useless cnt learned nothing from his errors, beyond how to make more balls-ups.
No. One word, two letters those numpties running this club never knew existed. How much might we also have made if we'd taken the cups more seriously as well? |  |
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| QPR Finances released on 13:55 - Feb 28 with 2079 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| QPR Finances released on 13:44 - Feb 28 by Northernr |
I'm not sure there's a lot of confusion at all, everything you've said there is exactly right. Presently within the limits because of Eze, but you don't stay in the limits for long if you lose £2m a month and you don't have another Eze soon. |
Thanks. So, in a nutshell, within the next 2 years the board have to find Eze money and/or reduce costs in order to keep the good ship QPR below the FFP line? | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 13:56 - Feb 28 with 2056 views | Northernr |
| QPR Finances released on 13:55 - Feb 28 by Benny_the_Ball |
Thanks. So, in a nutshell, within the next 2 years the board have to find Eze money and/or reduce costs in order to keep the good ship QPR below the FFP line? |
Yes, a sale, a promotion, or a significant hack at the wage bill. Like more than a third of it.
And bar shifting Austin and Gray it doesn't look like they've made much headway on any of that this season (next set of accounts) does it? | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 13:58 - Feb 28 with 2039 views | derbyhoop |
There are 2 routes to getting things more sustainable.
Cut the number of staff. Heston may help with more overlap of coaching between age groups.
But playing staff is carrying too many passengers. Its no wonder we have so many out on.loan.
Secondly, cut the wages.
Any players earning 10k+ need to be sold/ let go.
Coaching staff can't be on more than 50k p.a. ualthough 1st team will be higher.
But avg wage of 176k is ridiculous. |  |
| Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one’s lifetime. (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop |
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| QPR Finances released on 14:03 - Feb 28 with 1999 views | QPR_Jim |
| QPR Finances released on 13:49 - Feb 28 by 89_50 |
We should be erecting statues of Eze. Without that money, I'd hate to think where we'd be.
Maybe this is being too simplistic, but does the fault of this largely lay with Hoos?
Having done so well to get things under control, he's seemingly presided over a monumental growth in excess spend. |
I think spending the money is the right idea with the wrong outcome. With the Eze money, if we don't spend the headroom it gives us it would still fall off the calculation after 3 years, so there's an element of use it or lose it.
It needs to be done in a way that doesn't leave you exposed as well, so you don't really want one big profit one year and then two years over budget, spending that headroom because you're heading for pain in the 3rd year, so perhaps that was a bit mis-managed financially.
The way you mitigate that is by getting another player like Eze through the door or promoted. So I think the problem lies with the fact we spent it and have nothing to show for it, no promotion push, players possibly passed their peak market value and players constantly injured. Lee Hoos can't do much about that. |  | | |
| QPR Finances released on 14:25 - Feb 28 with 1853 views | 1JD |
| QPR Finances released on 13:56 - Feb 28 by Northernr |
Yes, a sale, a promotion, or a significant hack at the wage bill. Like more than a third of it.
And bar shifting Austin and Gray it doesn't look like they've made much headway on any of that this season (next set of accounts) does it? |
To be fair, Austin, Johansen and Gray were the main reason for the +£4m jump in wages. Given 2 out of 3 have left, I suspect they’ve already cut it by 2/3rds rough figures. Meaning circa £2.5m off the wage bill this season. That’s significant.
Johansen won’t be retained beyond this season when his contact runs out, that will be another 1.5m off the wage bill there and then, so we’d be down 4m, again rough figures, and back to the season 20/21 in terms of wage bill.
From there, we chip away at it again. It’s been done before, and it will be done again. | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 14:29 - Feb 28 with 1814 views | daveB |
| QPR Finances released on 14:25 - Feb 28 by 1JD |
To be fair, Austin, Johansen and Gray were the main reason for the +£4m jump in wages. Given 2 out of 3 have left, I suspect they’ve already cut it by 2/3rds rough figures. Meaning circa £2.5m off the wage bill this season. That’s significant.
Johansen won’t be retained beyond this season when his contact runs out, that will be another 1.5m off the wage bill there and then, so we’d be down 4m, again rough figures, and back to the season 20/21 in terms of wage bill.
From there, we chip away at it again. It’s been done before, and it will be done again. |
Johansen has one more year |  | | |
| QPR Finances released on 14:30 - Feb 28 with 1800 views | themodfather |
if qpr accounts are this eye opening, but expected etc what are other teams like? we saw forest buying everyone , reading have ince and carroll and must have a high wage bill and many empty seats , some clubs must really be lead balloons. | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 14:34 - Feb 28 with 1760 views | CamberleyR |
| QPR Finances released on 14:25 - Feb 28 by 1JD |
To be fair, Austin, Johansen and Gray were the main reason for the +£4m jump in wages. Given 2 out of 3 have left, I suspect they’ve already cut it by 2/3rds rough figures. Meaning circa £2.5m off the wage bill this season. That’s significant.
Johansen won’t be retained beyond this season when his contact runs out, that will be another 1.5m off the wage bill there and then, so we’d be down 4m, again rough figures, and back to the season 20/21 in terms of wage bill.
From there, we chip away at it again. It’s been done before, and it will be done again. |
Johansen's contract runs until June 2024 although I could see the club negotiating a settlement this summer to get him off the books early. |  |
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| QPR Finances released on 14:38 - Feb 28 with 1718 views | BushRanger82 |
| QPR Finances released on 13:12 - Feb 28 by BostonR |
Whilst this is miserable reading at what point do the clubs and owners face-down the EFL on FFP rules? In its current format it's killing the game below the PL and the PL are fueling the imbalance with parachute payments.
In a free capitalist society why allow the EFL to dictate how an individual or a group of investor's spend their cash?
There needs to be a re-balancing and quick otherwise the game is finished. I can only imagine there are lawyers out there ready to take this on - what have we got to lose? |
Things being as they are now, is killing the game slowly, but surely. |  | | |
| QPR Finances released on 14:38 - Feb 28 with 1718 views | Northernr |
| QPR Finances released on 14:25 - Feb 28 by 1JD |
To be fair, Austin, Johansen and Gray were the main reason for the +£4m jump in wages. Given 2 out of 3 have left, I suspect they’ve already cut it by 2/3rds rough figures. Meaning circa £2.5m off the wage bill this season. That’s significant.
Johansen won’t be retained beyond this season when his contact runs out, that will be another 1.5m off the wage bill there and then, so we’d be down 4m, again rough figures, and back to the season 20/21 in terms of wage bill.
From there, we chip away at it again. It’s been done before, and it will be done again. |
I'd have more faith and optimism in these predictions if you got the contract lengths correct 
The good news is much of that intake from last summer that bumped the wage bill up have been moved on - Moses, Austin, Gray, Sanderson, McCallum, De Wijs, a million goalkeepers...
However, again, what we've done this season will not have been cheap. We basically bent over and spread our cheeks for any Villa player we could get, God knows what deal we've got Tim on for instance. Roberts, Jake Clarke-Salter, Balogun... these will be significant salaries we've added.
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