| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 14:18 - Dec 18 with 1972 views | YorkRanger |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 13:25 - Dec 18 by Northernr |
There will be no 7s if you do that to my Saturday afternoon. |
I can accept that  |  | |  |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 14:45 - Dec 18 with 1927 views | Match82 |
Excellent report Clive. Are you suggesting the song ends with "and give it to Cifuentes" because that seems to work and might be the only way you'll have work those 4 syllables into a song cohesively! |  | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 15:23 - Dec 18 with 1874 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 14:12 - Dec 18 by OldPedro |
Bannon was by far their best player and we gave him far too much time and space in the 2nd half |
When he really took over the game we should have kicked him up in the air.I thought he headbutted Smyth but it was only a yellow for both.I would have liked to see a QPR player get involved ,not to get booked just tell him to fcuk off and keep his head on a swivel
They have some dirty players and the ref did nothing to stop them and that hurt us IMO |  | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 15:39 - Dec 18 with 1843 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
One bright note under Marti when Dykes missed that sitter to seal the game and Stoke equalized pretty much immediatly we found a way to win it still.
After Fields miserable sidefoot attempt (how about wrapping the laces around it ) and they scored before we had finished typing FFS we still fought back to try and win. Ossie was set up by a beautiful backheel from Chair but he kicked that clearence with more precision earlier and that went backwards .
At least we did not crumble when they scored but we still lost so I guess we did | | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 15:41 - Dec 18 with 1837 views | TheChef |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 15:39 - Dec 18 by CLAREMAN1995 |
One bright note under Marti when Dykes missed that sitter to seal the game and Stoke equalized pretty much immediatly we found a way to win it still.
After Fields miserable sidefoot attempt (how about wrapping the laces around it ) and they scored before we had finished typing FFS we still fought back to try and win. Ossie was set up by a beautiful backheel from Chair but he kicked that clearence with more precision earlier and that went backwards .
At least we did not crumble when they scored but we still lost so I guess we did |
Well yeah to lead a game in the 86th minute and end up losing is usually "not good". |  |
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| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 16:31 - Dec 18 with 1765 views | terryb |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 12:28 - Dec 18 by derbyhoop |
Apart from Dykes for Armstrong, who was anonymous after 3rd minute, every sub made us worse. Willock had 1 of those games where you almost forget he was on the pitch. EDB got switched too often to be truly effective.
Even so, if Field finds some minge around it, we win comfortably.
2 poor teams serving meagre Championship gruel.
Happy Christmas, everyone. |
I thought the same derby. Dykes was a massive improvement , but moving EDB to right back seems regressive to me.
It's not often I'd write this, but I thought Dozzell, JCS were our best players & his removal backfired on us badly.
My reaction after the game was that it was like watching us play under Ainsworth. | | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 16:55 - Dec 18 with 1681 views | Northernr |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 16:31 - Dec 18 by terryb |
I thought the same derby. Dykes was a massive improvement , but moving EDB to right back seems regressive to me.
It's not often I'd write this, but I thought Dozzell, JCS were our best players & his removal backfired on us badly.
My reaction after the game was that it was like watching us play under Ainsworth. |
It's because this group of players is mentally weak and look for easy outs.
Now, maybe it's lack of confidence. Maybe it's lack of ability. Maybe it's something else. Maybe it's a combination. But the things this group of players do, and have been doing since January 2021 when the collapse started under Warburton, are consistent.
When the going gets even remotely tough they do three things...
1 - Pass it slowly, backwards and sideways. Always a safe option. Centre back to centre back, to goalkeeper, to full back back to centre back up to Field and back in. Nobody willing to take the risk of taking a man on, or playing a forward pass between the lines, or playing a first time ball without a touch, or trying to cut out a middle man to get a player free in space. I liked JCS and Paal on Saturday because they were the two willing to do that. We need more of it, otherwise you get trapped deep in your half, you can't get out. It's also desperately boring to watch.
2 - A product of that, with the ball, is they end up, either through laziness or no other option, just whacking it up to Dykes for him to try and flick on to nobody very much. We did that more in the second half on Saturday than Cifuentes' other games combined. I can't believe he instructed them to do this, or was happy about it, but then he is guilty of removing Dozzell from midfield, who does pass the ball forwards TBF to him, and sticking another CB on which exacerbated the problem.
3 -A second product of that is they sink deeper and deeper. It's like watching a drunk in the dark feeling for a light switch, they're reaching behind them desperately looking for their own goalline so there's no space behind. Consequently we concede space and goalscoring chances closer to our goal, immediately in front of us. That first Sheff Wed goal is a variation of a goal we've conceded a dozen times, at least, where we panic and sink deep, leaving acres of space between penalty spot and edge of box, for a ball to be pulled back into. Look at Ipswich's goal at Loftus Road, Sunderland's third goal, Blackburn's first and third, Huddersfield's second. Last season look at West Brom's second at the Hawthorns, Birmingham's goal at Loftus Road is an absolute text book example, Blackburn's third... We defend poorly out wide, often on a counter attack. The centre backs either charge towards the ball trying to fix the problem themselves, or they sink to basically the goalline, the ball is pulled back behind them into acres, a goal is scored. |  | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 17:46 - Dec 18 with 1576 views | Rangersw12 |
I think the last 2 years has given the fans PTSD and every defeat is greeted like its the end of the world and we over analyse everything
For what it's worth I think we controlled the game and had enough chances to win it . If the Field chance goes in we would be having threads asking if Cifuentes is our best manager since Venables
As Warburton would say it's fine margins
I think we would have taken 4 points from the last 3 so all in all still a decent couple of weeks and i fancy us to get 4 points from the next 2 aswell | | | |
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| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 18:05 - Dec 18 with 1543 views | OldPedro |
Just watched the bit of the 90 mins coverage on the official website - not sure how Bannon and Smyth both get a yellow card. Smyth has a little push while Bannon swings his elbow into Smyth's head - referee took the easy option to give them both a yellow when Bannon could easily have seen red. No doubt if it had been the other way round, Bannon would have thrown himself to the ground to get Smyth sent off.
Fine margins [Post edited 18 Dec 2023 18:18]
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| Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man |
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| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 18:18 - Dec 18 with 1518 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 16:55 - Dec 18 by Northernr |
It's because this group of players is mentally weak and look for easy outs.
Now, maybe it's lack of confidence. Maybe it's lack of ability. Maybe it's something else. Maybe it's a combination. But the things this group of players do, and have been doing since January 2021 when the collapse started under Warburton, are consistent.
When the going gets even remotely tough they do three things...
1 - Pass it slowly, backwards and sideways. Always a safe option. Centre back to centre back, to goalkeeper, to full back back to centre back up to Field and back in. Nobody willing to take the risk of taking a man on, or playing a forward pass between the lines, or playing a first time ball without a touch, or trying to cut out a middle man to get a player free in space. I liked JCS and Paal on Saturday because they were the two willing to do that. We need more of it, otherwise you get trapped deep in your half, you can't get out. It's also desperately boring to watch.
2 - A product of that, with the ball, is they end up, either through laziness or no other option, just whacking it up to Dykes for him to try and flick on to nobody very much. We did that more in the second half on Saturday than Cifuentes' other games combined. I can't believe he instructed them to do this, or was happy about it, but then he is guilty of removing Dozzell from midfield, who does pass the ball forwards TBF to him, and sticking another CB on which exacerbated the problem.
3 -A second product of that is they sink deeper and deeper. It's like watching a drunk in the dark feeling for a light switch, they're reaching behind them desperately looking for their own goalline so there's no space behind. Consequently we concede space and goalscoring chances closer to our goal, immediately in front of us. That first Sheff Wed goal is a variation of a goal we've conceded a dozen times, at least, where we panic and sink deep, leaving acres of space between penalty spot and edge of box, for a ball to be pulled back into. Look at Ipswich's goal at Loftus Road, Sunderland's third goal, Blackburn's first and third, Huddersfield's second. Last season look at West Brom's second at the Hawthorns, Birmingham's goal at Loftus Road is an absolute text book example, Blackburn's third... We defend poorly out wide, often on a counter attack. The centre backs either charge towards the ball trying to fix the problem themselves, or they sink to basically the goalline, the ball is pulled back behind them into acres, a goal is scored. |
I think not having Colback & Larkeche available on Saturday was a big miss.
As both Colback & Larkeche can travel with the ball, which neither Dozzell or Field can for differing reasons, the former is flat-footed and struggles to move around the pitch at any given pace for any given time and the latter is'nt the best at running with the ball under control and passing forward.
Following up on your specific points:
1) Pass it slowly side to side - this is where your Dom Ball and / or SJ used to drop in the hole to take the ball of the defenders. Dozzell just does not do this and this for me is his key role in the team. If he does'nt show and do this, he cannot be a starter.
2) Long balls - with players of the calibre of Willock and Cannon in the Starting XI this just should'nt happen, but a more mobile midfield that can run and carry the ball on ocassion would be of help (see 1 above!)
3) Dropping too deep - the defensive line for that 1st goal was unforgivable and that's where I'm looking for real leadership from Cook. Like Colback tried to coach Duke McKenna positionally through the Blackburn (IIR) game, I want Cook to be doing this, not digging our players out after they've made mistakes. Call the line, enforce it, don't just all start running backwards like U'11 players.
If Marti stops the rotation and plays our best Starting XI, these problems should reduce and hopefully Marti has seen enough now to know his best Starting XI is and not to risk unneccessarily bringing on squad players who just are'nt of the same standard. | | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 18:21 - Dec 18 with 1513 views | Northernr |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 18:18 - Dec 18 by ParkRoyalR |
I think not having Colback & Larkeche available on Saturday was a big miss.
As both Colback & Larkeche can travel with the ball, which neither Dozzell or Field can for differing reasons, the former is flat-footed and struggles to move around the pitch at any given pace for any given time and the latter is'nt the best at running with the ball under control and passing forward.
Following up on your specific points:
1) Pass it slowly side to side - this is where your Dom Ball and / or SJ used to drop in the hole to take the ball of the defenders. Dozzell just does not do this and this for me is his key role in the team. If he does'nt show and do this, he cannot be a starter.
2) Long balls - with players of the calibre of Willock and Cannon in the Starting XI this just should'nt happen, but a more mobile midfield that can run and carry the ball on ocassion would be of help (see 1 above!)
3) Dropping too deep - the defensive line for that 1st goal was unforgivable and that's where I'm looking for real leadership from Cook. Like Colback tried to coach Duke McKenna positionally through the Blackburn (IIR) game, I want Cook to be doing this, not digging our players out after they've made mistakes. Call the line, enforce it, don't just all start running backwards like U'11 players.
If Marti stops the rotation and plays our best Starting XI, these problems should reduce and hopefully Marti has seen enough now to know his best Starting XI is and not to risk unneccessarily bringing on squad players who just are'nt of the same standard. |
I'd be surprised if he stops the rotation. We're going to have to get used to that. Particularly over the next three weeks. | | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 18:49 - Dec 18 with 1450 views | Antti_Heinola |
Yeah no chance he stops rotating, and with the run of fixtures coming up, not should he.
Flip side: my Wednesday mate thought they were fortunate to win, and didn’t see is as looking like a relegation side. He also pointed out how Rohl is not afraid to play 4 up top, and it’s already spooked better teams then ours. It’s ok to say ‘we dropped too deep’ and it would also be accurate, but it’s very, very hard to not fall into that trap when you’re faced with 4 forwards. In theory it should leave them open to a good counter, mind.
Norf’s report was spot on for me: we will still lose lots of games. We don’t have to like it, not should we, but we will. Have to hope we win enough too. |  |
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| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 19:18 - Dec 18 with 1393 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 18:18 - Dec 18 by ParkRoyalR |
I think not having Colback & Larkeche available on Saturday was a big miss.
As both Colback & Larkeche can travel with the ball, which neither Dozzell or Field can for differing reasons, the former is flat-footed and struggles to move around the pitch at any given pace for any given time and the latter is'nt the best at running with the ball under control and passing forward.
Following up on your specific points:
1) Pass it slowly side to side - this is where your Dom Ball and / or SJ used to drop in the hole to take the ball of the defenders. Dozzell just does not do this and this for me is his key role in the team. If he does'nt show and do this, he cannot be a starter.
2) Long balls - with players of the calibre of Willock and Cannon in the Starting XI this just should'nt happen, but a more mobile midfield that can run and carry the ball on ocassion would be of help (see 1 above!)
3) Dropping too deep - the defensive line for that 1st goal was unforgivable and that's where I'm looking for real leadership from Cook. Like Colback tried to coach Duke McKenna positionally through the Blackburn (IIR) game, I want Cook to be doing this, not digging our players out after they've made mistakes. Call the line, enforce it, don't just all start running backwards like U'11 players.
If Marti stops the rotation and plays our best Starting XI, these problems should reduce and hopefully Marti has seen enough now to know his best Starting XI is and not to risk unneccessarily bringing on squad players who just are'nt of the same standard. |
"1) Pass it slowly side to side - this is where your Dom Ball and / or SJ used to drop in the hole to take the ball of the defenders. Dozzell just does not do this and this for me is his key role in the team. If he does'nt show and do this, he cannot be a starter."
Well, we have to start someone in there, and probably three.
Field and Colback have consistently failed to show for the out ball. Field actually points to other players to tell the defenders where to pass to instead of to him so no wonder he's not playing well right now, Colback hides behind oppo players so he can't be passed to. EDB always shows for the ball and does it on the half-turn, and Dozzell does show consistently imo but not deep, as you say.
We've said from Cifuentes' first match that the midfield have been far better, but we've also said that they willl have to improve in showing for the ball if we're going to really play Cifuentes' Cryuffian system. In my opinion, Field and Colback are the two who have to improve the most. |  |
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| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 19:43 - Dec 18 with 1363 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 19:18 - Dec 18 by BrianMcCarthy |
"1) Pass it slowly side to side - this is where your Dom Ball and / or SJ used to drop in the hole to take the ball of the defenders. Dozzell just does not do this and this for me is his key role in the team. If he does'nt show and do this, he cannot be a starter."
Well, we have to start someone in there, and probably three.
Field and Colback have consistently failed to show for the out ball. Field actually points to other players to tell the defenders where to pass to instead of to him so no wonder he's not playing well right now, Colback hides behind oppo players so he can't be passed to. EDB always shows for the ball and does it on the half-turn, and Dozzell does show consistently imo but not deep, as you say.
We've said from Cifuentes' first match that the midfield have been far better, but we've also said that they willl have to improve in showing for the ball if we're going to really play Cifuentes' Cryuffian system. In my opinion, Field and Colback are the two who have to improve the most. |
Fair points and I don't understand football formations and systems well enough, but I just don't see 3 Midfielders in our Squad of the calibre Cifuentes wants or needs to play what I think is his preferred 4-3-3 system.
I can see a 4-2-3-1 with Field & Colback as the 2 and ideally Larkeche & Willock either side of Chair in the 3 who can give the team width and can take the ball up from the defence, as Field can't, and Colback's yet to prove he's the man either.
I think how he solves this is his biggest and most pressing problem and for me 4-2-3-1 best suits the players we have (short of finding a young Declan Rice in Hammarby or EDB showing he can play that central midfield role in a 3) | | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 20:05 - Dec 18 with 1282 views | NorthantsHoop |
Tactics apart stil think that the rest of the season will fall into the pattern of the last 3 games i.e. win, draw and defeat because this is the sort of inconsistent team we are. Compare it to before Marti and it looked loss, loss and loss continually, so we have improved, keep the faith but it is going to be tight for survival, but I think we all knew that anyway. |  | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 21:50 - Dec 18 with 1177 views | ManinBlack |
We have a good record of losing to teams who are not very good. Just look at all our cup exits to lower league opponents. There has been a theme for many decades where the worse the opponent then the worse we play. Frequently we lose to teams who end up getting relegated. Sometimes their only away win is at our place. This does not bode well for Sheffield beating us as that win may seal their fate.
Even when Venables was our manager we lost to Carlisle and Burnley who both went down while we finished 10 points clear at the top.
We won't beat Southampton and won't score either. Plymouth, Coventry and Sunderland made too much noise for our delicate team and they bricked it. A full away end of Saints fans making noise will scare them rigid. We could beat Hull and Stoke as they didn't bring the same numbers or loudness to the stadium. I expect little from our lads and that is usually what they give us. |  | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 22:17 - Dec 18 with 1139 views | QPRConor2000 |
Hard to disagree with your report Clive.
I think this is still very much a work in progress, and this was always going to take time, a bad week at the office I think.
Russell Martin likes his teams to hold the ball a lot, and they have an outstanding side.
Be interesting to see how Marti approaches this, especially as all the pundits will be expecting Southampton to win. | | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 22:22 - Dec 18 with 1132 views | Lblock |
If you rotate shit it just becomes messier shit
Leave it and it can be shit that crumbles
He’s not got a lot of choice has he our Marti?
My jury was out waiting to see how we fared last two games
Six points and possibly 19th over Crimble — nice; might have a chance
Four points…. Mmmmmm, probably out of bottom three
Two points…. Oh dear we’ve passed up a huge chance to create a possible platform for survival
One or no points…. Leave off!!! That’s a huge dent and something we will live to regret; early last rites I reckon
I kin detest this club at times
Why the feck am I going Saturday?!?!? |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 22:37 - Dec 18 with 1120 views | Northolt_Rs |
I still feel ill…. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 09:09 - Dec 19 with 879 views | joe90 |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 19:43 - Dec 18 by ParkRoyalR |
Fair points and I don't understand football formations and systems well enough, but I just don't see 3 Midfielders in our Squad of the calibre Cifuentes wants or needs to play what I think is his preferred 4-3-3 system.
I can see a 4-2-3-1 with Field & Colback as the 2 and ideally Larkeche & Willock either side of Chair in the 3 who can give the team width and can take the ball up from the defence, as Field can't, and Colback's yet to prove he's the man either.
I think how he solves this is his biggest and most pressing problem and for me 4-2-3-1 best suits the players we have (short of finding a young Declan Rice in Hammarby or EDB showing he can play that central midfield role in a 3) |
Great report as always.
I agree with your general assessment, but would add that whether it's 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 it's a flexible system that changes in or out of possession,defending/attacking etc.
Unfortunately in this system there is no hiding, players have to show for the ball in tight spaces (and be confident doing so) and be prepared to move quickly to offer an outlet. What should happen over time is that the movement and transition should become seamless, but as we know, a team such as ours is likely to withdraw into itself under the slightest pressure. How we build confidence to fight against setbacks is key. [Post edited 19 Dec 2023 9:11]
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| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 09:17 - Dec 19 with 861 views | Northernr |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 09:09 - Dec 19 by joe90 |
Great report as always.
I agree with your general assessment, but would add that whether it's 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 it's a flexible system that changes in or out of possession,defending/attacking etc.
Unfortunately in this system there is no hiding, players have to show for the ball in tight spaces (and be confident doing so) and be prepared to move quickly to offer an outlet. What should happen over time is that the movement and transition should become seamless, but as we know, a team such as ours is likely to withdraw into itself under the slightest pressure. How we build confidence to fight against setbacks is key. [Post edited 19 Dec 2023 9:11]
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This is why I like Dixon-Bonner in this system. Because of his background he's very comfortable and keen to take the ball in tight spaces, on the turn, and get it moving forwards. Dozzell does to a certain extent but doesn't get involved enough and hides. Field can't/won't do it. | | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 09:38 - Dec 19 with 832 views | PhilmyRs |
Good report and agreed a lot of the observations - I too thought JCS and Paal were the ones looking to move the ball quickly and stood out to me as the best 2 players. First half, and much of the second, JCS looked like a top player, one where he seemed not to have bothered changing out of his club suit and the clearance off the line was phenomenal.
Been off the board since Saturday because I was just so annoyed at this one and didn't want to revisit it. If you cock up and don't win, just make sure you don't lose. No way we should be losing that one. Going to script at half time but felt some unnecessary manager tinkering had a negative impact.
A controversial point but been a big disappointed with Field recently. I suppose he's always been like this but while his breakup work remains first class, he should be better with his passing and the less said about the finishing the better. He regularly passes only in the direction he faces and that's often backwards or sideways, would love him to be able to turn out a bit more and face forward or have an incisive pass between the lines in his locker, which to be fair Dozzell does have, or as another poster said, just being able to drive forward with the ball sometimes and break the press would be massive. Not having that technical skill is a factor in why we end up going long, we play ourselves into trouble and don't have the technical abilities to get through the press. | | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 09:41 - Dec 19 with 808 views | Northernr |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 09:38 - Dec 19 by PhilmyRs |
Good report and agreed a lot of the observations - I too thought JCS and Paal were the ones looking to move the ball quickly and stood out to me as the best 2 players. First half, and much of the second, JCS looked like a top player, one where he seemed not to have bothered changing out of his club suit and the clearance off the line was phenomenal.
Been off the board since Saturday because I was just so annoyed at this one and didn't want to revisit it. If you cock up and don't win, just make sure you don't lose. No way we should be losing that one. Going to script at half time but felt some unnecessary manager tinkering had a negative impact.
A controversial point but been a big disappointed with Field recently. I suppose he's always been like this but while his breakup work remains first class, he should be better with his passing and the less said about the finishing the better. He regularly passes only in the direction he faces and that's often backwards or sideways, would love him to be able to turn out a bit more and face forward or have an incisive pass between the lines in his locker, which to be fair Dozzell does have, or as another poster said, just being able to drive forward with the ball sometimes and break the press would be massive. Not having that technical skill is a factor in why we end up going long, we play ourselves into trouble and don't have the technical abilities to get through the press. |
I sense, for the reasons Hunter gave on here after Plymouth, if you took him out of the team we'd be wide open through the middle and you'd miss his defensive work. No doubt he's playing poorly with the ball though. | | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 09:45 - Dec 19 with 801 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 09:17 - Dec 19 by Northernr |
This is why I like Dixon-Bonner in this system. Because of his background he's very comfortable and keen to take the ball in tight spaces, on the turn, and get it moving forwards. Dozzell does to a certain extent but doesn't get involved enough and hides. Field can't/won't do it. |
I'm glad I am not the only one who thinks that Dozzell hides. He is just so anonymous for so long, then does the occasional good thing. Not known a player like it since Jermaine Jenas or possibly Kevin Brock, if I remember rightly.
Give me EDB any day. | | | |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 09:46 - Dec 19 with 797 views | Northernr |
| Anatomy of a fall – Report on 09:45 - Dec 19 by GaryBannister86 |
I'm glad I am not the only one who thinks that Dozzell hides. He is just so anonymous for so long, then does the occasional good thing. Not known a player like it since Jermaine Jenas or possibly Kevin Brock, if I remember rightly.
Give me EDB any day. |
Jenas is a great comparison. Always 10 yards away from anything that happens.
Needs to assert himself into and onto games. | | | |
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