| Celar - Nothing Again 22:01 - Oct 22 with 42506 views | NorthantsHoop |
Is he just a dud or not interested, Lloyd looked much more up for it when he came on. |  | | |  |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 11:59 - Oct 23 with 2127 views | A40Bosh |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 23:15 - Oct 22 by Myke |
That's completely untrue. He pulled the ball back FOR Morgan. If anyone mishit the ball it was Morgan - delighted he did though, and for him |
Symth definitely pulled that ball back towards Morgan and did not miss-hit that cross.
You see him turn his head in all the replays of the goal on the socials.
Thought Symth was very good last night. He will now start getting stick for putting crosses in to "dangerous areas" "when there is nobody there".
Jury is still out on Celar but as the Sky team said after the game "12 touches in the whole game" is not going to win him any goals or plaudits. |  |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 12:02 - Oct 23 with 2097 views | Lblock |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 09:56 - Oct 23 by TheChef |
Took six months for Frey to acclimatise.
Let's give Celar some time eh? |
How much time?
14 appearances in.
Is it 20 games? 30 games? Shall we see how he does in League One?
We've had our fair share of wastrels and useless strikers.
Anyone who has watched football regularly can see this lad is never going o work for us or English football.... I'm not sure what he brings to any team up top and he genuinely looks either absolutely petrified or has a CGAF attitude.
This club...  |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 12:26 - Oct 23 with 1999 views | R_from_afar |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 11:58 - Oct 23 by lassel |
It feels a bit pointless trying to compare Celar and Frey as they’re completely different players, it’s like comparing Pickford with Ederson.
Celar is not and never will be a lone back to goal striker, it’s simply not his game and Cifuentes has been pretty clearly favouring him in a two but with Frey unavailable last night needs must.
Take a look on YouTube at the goals he scored in the last couple of seasons and you will see a pretty clear pattern of wanting early balls from deep to run onto between the centre backs and pull backs/crosses to the penalty spot. Celar’s entire game is basically getting to the penalty spot ASAP, not holding up the ball, not throwing himself at balls across the 6 yard box.
The first type is a run he has made several times here, including last night, and not been found as it’s clearly a different wavelength to everyone else. If we want to play backs to goal, hold it up and bring others into the game then 100% it has to be Frey starting and if that’s the long term strategy the I imagine Celar will want to get out asap as it’s a horrible fit for both parties.
If there is an intention to transition to a quicker and more fluid Saito-Celar-Dembele frontline then there is a lot of potential imo for it to work but the club needs to make a decision pretty damn fast about what they want to be and how they want to play.
There should be serious questions asked also about how we have gotten to the stage of having only 2 strikers who are polar opposites of each other - of course the answer would likely be that Frey was a cheap and available panic option last January and Celar aligns with the future vision but it’s a bonkers situation where we have no like for like replacement for either. |
Re. your last paragraph, surely we should be capable of coaching the players to exploit the attributes of more than one type of striker? The ability to mix up the play should be something we aspire to, the very best sides can attack you in more than one way and that variety unsettles the opposition. 
I am hoping that Celar does a Frey and goes from looking poor to actually offering us some positives. There's nothing I'd love more than to see Celar get his first goal, ideally in the next game.
A challenge we face all over the pitch is that the P & S rules make it difficult for us bring in a ready made, Championship standard striker, unless we have just sold someone for big money. That forces us to take a chance on overseas players or prospects from lower down the English pyramid.
One final thing: It's not just about recruitment. As for every position on the pitch at the moment, the failure of our internal development to produce players of the required standard means firstly, we have limited options and secondly, that there is less competition for places.
Ugly  |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 12:42 - Oct 23 with 1933 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 11:58 - Oct 23 by lassel |
It feels a bit pointless trying to compare Celar and Frey as they’re completely different players, it’s like comparing Pickford with Ederson.
Celar is not and never will be a lone back to goal striker, it’s simply not his game and Cifuentes has been pretty clearly favouring him in a two but with Frey unavailable last night needs must.
Take a look on YouTube at the goals he scored in the last couple of seasons and you will see a pretty clear pattern of wanting early balls from deep to run onto between the centre backs and pull backs/crosses to the penalty spot. Celar’s entire game is basically getting to the penalty spot ASAP, not holding up the ball, not throwing himself at balls across the 6 yard box.
The first type is a run he has made several times here, including last night, and not been found as it’s clearly a different wavelength to everyone else. If we want to play backs to goal, hold it up and bring others into the game then 100% it has to be Frey starting and if that’s the long term strategy the I imagine Celar will want to get out asap as it’s a horrible fit for both parties.
If there is an intention to transition to a quicker and more fluid Saito-Celar-Dembele frontline then there is a lot of potential imo for it to work but the club needs to make a decision pretty damn fast about what they want to be and how they want to play.
There should be serious questions asked also about how we have gotten to the stage of having only 2 strikers who are polar opposites of each other - of course the answer would likely be that Frey was a cheap and available panic option last January and Celar aligns with the future vision but it’s a bonkers situation where we have no like for like replacement for either. |
Great post. 100% agreement and the only one that actually sees the bigger problem. He is not the same as Frey.
I watched his runs last night, I sit in the Upper Loft right behind the goal, and he made the run between the centre backs numerous times and not once did the pass get made, despite it being on.
Celar is definitely the striker that fits with Nourrys vision of how he wants the team to play. If it was quick ball to feet, pull backs in the box then Celar is the striker.
I think Frey is being used as we are unable to play it out, so they can use Frey as the out ball with a big hoof up to him. Not the type of football I want to watch. A bit to Gareth Ainsworth for me. |  | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 12:57 - Oct 23 with 1841 views | TheChef |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 12:02 - Oct 23 by Lblock |
How much time?
14 appearances in.
Is it 20 games? 30 games? Shall we see how he does in League One?
We've had our fair share of wastrels and useless strikers.
Anyone who has watched football regularly can see this lad is never going o work for us or English football.... I'm not sure what he brings to any team up top and he genuinely looks either absolutely petrified or has a CGAF attitude.
This club... |
Er maybe six months like Frey had?
We don't have the cash to buy a ready-made, 20 goal a season striker. |  |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 13:02 - Oct 23 with 1812 views | BrazilNutR |
He has looked poor so far, but strikers need goals and confidence... Celar desperately needs a goal of any form to maybe ignite the striker within... that is the only thing that still gives me hope, that he just needs to get his mojo back with a goal. The longer the personal drought continues the more difficult it will be.. and playing in a team at the bottom with no individual confidence and a team low in confidence is a tricky combination. |  | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 13:03 - Oct 23 with 1808 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 12:57 - Oct 23 by TheChef |
Er maybe six months like Frey had?
We don't have the cash to buy a ready-made, 20 goal a season striker. |
QPR don’t do 20 goals a season strikers nowadays: one that scores 10 goals a season would be good enough! |  | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 13:09 - Oct 23 with 1761 views | BklynRanger |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 12:42 - Oct 23 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
Great post. 100% agreement and the only one that actually sees the bigger problem. He is not the same as Frey.
I watched his runs last night, I sit in the Upper Loft right behind the goal, and he made the run between the centre backs numerous times and not once did the pass get made, despite it being on.
Celar is definitely the striker that fits with Nourrys vision of how he wants the team to play. If it was quick ball to feet, pull backs in the box then Celar is the striker.
I think Frey is being used as we are unable to play it out, so they can use Frey as the out ball with a big hoof up to him. Not the type of football I want to watch. A bit to Gareth Ainsworth for me. |
I do get yours and Lassel's points - makes sense.
And I'm sure this is rank over simplification, but he's a 25 year old professional athlete. Why can he not throw himself at a cross once in a while?!
I understand it's not his game, it's not the ball he's looking for, he's made a number of runs during the game and not been seen*, it's not his natural temperament to be lungeing about like a madman etc etc etc
But under the circumstances, could he just have a go? Ok it's not the ball he craves but it's only 2 feet ahead of him, he can sense what's going to happen, he knows how Smyth plays them.
Given our situation could he not just have a fcuking go? If he looks daft at least he'll have tried.
*And what are they doing on the training ground all week if these runs are a mystery?) |  | | |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:04 - Oct 23 with 1623 views | rbee |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 22:30 - Oct 22 by PhilmyRs |
Fair enough on Celar but Lloyd made absolutely no difference when he came on and I’d say made us worse. I think a poster summed it up saying we’re one of the worst clubs for buying strikers as I can’t think of the last decent one - Austin, perhaps Wells? although Frey may disagree. I haven’t given up on Celar just yet though. |
Celar made a few runs last night and Varane tried to find him. I liked that Varane was usually quick to play the ball forward.
Every club wants a striker and therefore decent strikers are hard to come by. We were talking about strikers’ instinct yesterday and Nahki Wells possess that, scored two last night I think I saw.
If it wasn't for FFP Wells would be our player. Had him on loan from Burnley who wanted to sell and Bristol paid nearly 5 million I think, way out of our league.
I thought Financial Fair Play, Profit and Sustainability as it now is, was supposed to even the playing field but so many clubs can outspend us by some margin like Bristol City.
Bearing that in mind no doubt Zan Celar was one of the few strikers available in our price range so I guess we have to be a little pragmatic. Grrrrr!! |  | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:10 - Oct 23 with 1589 views | Rangersw12 |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 12:02 - Oct 23 by Lblock |
How much time?
14 appearances in.
Is it 20 games? 30 games? Shall we see how he does in League One?
We've had our fair share of wastrels and useless strikers.
Anyone who has watched football regularly can see this lad is never going o work for us or English football.... I'm not sure what he brings to any team up top and he genuinely looks either absolutely petrified or has a CGAF attitude.
This club... |
He's been very poor but how many of those 14 games has he actually started ? | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:11 - Oct 23 with 1585 views | Logman |
I have no idea why we bought Celar. The way we are set up, we need a lynch pin in the box for our three ACM's to operate through. First half yesterday, when Smyth, Dembele or Chair were on the ball about 30 yards out, Celar was not moving into space or dropping deep to create space behind. He was just rooted next to the centre backs. Not what we need at all. | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:11 - Oct 23 with 1581 views | TheChef |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:04 - Oct 23 by rbee |
Celar made a few runs last night and Varane tried to find him. I liked that Varane was usually quick to play the ball forward.
Every club wants a striker and therefore decent strikers are hard to come by. We were talking about strikers’ instinct yesterday and Nahki Wells possess that, scored two last night I think I saw.
If it wasn't for FFP Wells would be our player. Had him on loan from Burnley who wanted to sell and Bristol paid nearly 5 million I think, way out of our league.
I thought Financial Fair Play, Profit and Sustainability as it now is, was supposed to even the playing field but so many clubs can outspend us by some margin like Bristol City.
Bearing that in mind no doubt Zan Celar was one of the few strikers available in our price range so I guess we have to be a little pragmatic. Grrrrr!! |
Ah yes the good old "if only we'd signed Nakhi Wells" gambit.
Since signing for Bristol City he's scored 39 goals in 182 games. Not exactly prolific.
As mentioned, established goal-scoring strikers cost money that we don't have. | |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:14 - Oct 23 with 1546 views | rbee |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 09:08 - Oct 23 by BrianMcCarthy |
"I honestly believe I could coach and improve Chair & Smyth to play with their heads up to look for respectively the early & not so early pass."
I'd imagine QPR's coaches have tried. |
Chair is 26 and has been with us for seven years. Smythe is 27.
An awful lot of coaching has gone in these guys. I can't see Chair changing his game too much now. | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:24 - Oct 23 with 1509 views | gazza1 |
Dykes was pretty poor all around, hence why he is with a Club in a lower division. Add that to he doesn't get much game time at his new club suggests to me he is no better than Celar. No point whatsoever brining him into this thread. [Post edited 23 Oct 14:25]
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:25 - Oct 23 with 1494 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:11 - Oct 23 by TheChef |
Ah yes the good old "if only we'd signed Nakhi Wells" gambit.
Since signing for Bristol City he's scored 39 goals in 182 games. Not exactly prolific.
As mentioned, established goal-scoring strikers cost money that we don't have. |
I dream of a striker who could manage 39 goals in 182 games for us right now! |  |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:26 - Oct 23 with 1504 views | rbee |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:11 - Oct 23 by TheChef |
Ah yes the good old "if only we'd signed Nakhi Wells" gambit.
Since signing for Bristol City he's scored 39 goals in 182 games. Not exactly prolific.
As mentioned, established goal-scoring strikers cost money that we don't have. |
Prolific by our standards! I always liked him. He hasn't been a regular starter for Bristol City for a few seasons now so I think a fair few of those appearances will be as a sub.
Nevertheless I take your point. A non prolific striker costs nearly 5 million. | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:28 - Oct 23 with 1488 views | TheChef |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:25 - Oct 23 by stainrods_elbow |
I dream of a striker who could manage 39 goals in 182 games for us right now! |
Dream on!
For comparison - Dykes scored 35 in 156 games. Even better  | |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:29 - Oct 23 with 1485 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:14 - Oct 23 by rbee |
Chair is 26 and has been with us for seven years. Smythe is 27.
An awful lot of coaching has gone in these guys. I can't see Chair changing his game too much now. |
That was my point, rbee.
Parky reckons that (his) coaching could change their games. I see his point, and of course players can change with coaching, but Smyth and Chair are unlikely to have a metamorphisis or whatever that word was during the intro to The Incredible Hulk . They're not young, as you say, and they're also very set in their ways.
I see some changes in Smyth's game which I posted about earlier, I see very little in Chair's. I think Chair is a fine, fine player, but we know his game inside-out and it's hardly changed at all. His team-mates surely know his game and the oppo surely know it. All that must surely restrict his effectiveness. And many, many coaches and managers have worked with him.
Managers and coaches are restricted by the abilities and mannerisms of the players they coach.
Chair rarely crosses early and/or from the byline.
Smyth rarely cuts the ball back with precision.
Cook and Dunne can't defend on the half-way line.
Result: spaces between our lines, lots of pretty passing, lots of poor crosses, wide open to the counter-attack.
Is that the game model you recruited for, Nourry? [Post edited 23 Oct 14:37]
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:34 - Oct 23 with 1446 views | rbee |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 09:56 - Oct 23 by TheChef |
Took six months for Frey to acclimatise.
Let's give Celar some time eh? |
When we signed Frey hadn't he not played for months? His lack of match fitness showed and after a pre season he is a different player.
Celar came to us straight after playing in the Euros so probably had no more than a 2-3 week break. | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:38 - Oct 23 with 1406 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:24 - Oct 23 by gazza1 |
Dykes was pretty poor all around, hence why he is with a Club in a lower division. Add that to he doesn't get much game time at his new club suggests to me he is no better than Celar. No point whatsoever brining him into this thread. [Post edited 23 Oct 14:25]
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Gazza, c'mon let be honest and add some context here,
A club in a lower division that has spent more in the close season (£35m?) than all bar one club in the championship picked up Dykes on the cheap off us because of his wages and we somehow thought Frey & Celar were suitable replacements,
Do you think Birmingham City would have been in for Frey or Celar?
With such logic and incisive thinking, I'm only surprised you hav'nt been tapped up by our infamous Recruitment Department. | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:46 - Oct 23 with 1351 views | rbee |
Yes I know Brian.
Your views pretty much mirror mine and I still believe this is why no other clubs have seriously ever come in for Chair. Our best player but whether it is a good thing to build our whole game around him I don't know. I don't think he makes the Morocco squad these days?
I never understood the re-signing of Smythe but he is a better player this time around, too often takes an extra touch, but as we know genuine pace will cause any defence some problems. | | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:48 - Oct 23 with 1324 views | TheChef |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:38 - Oct 23 by ParkRoyalR |
Gazza, c'mon let be honest and add some context here,
A club in a lower division that has spent more in the close season (£35m?) than all bar one club in the championship picked up Dykes on the cheap off us because of his wages and we somehow thought Frey & Celar were suitable replacements,
Do you think Birmingham City would have been in for Frey or Celar?
With such logic and incisive thinking, I'm only surprised you hav'nt been tapped up by our infamous Recruitment Department. |
Birmingham City, who were so happy to spend money on Dykes, that more often that not he's left on the bench! Just the three minutes of pitch time last night. In League One.
See also Armstrong (11 minutes on the pitch, wow!) and Willock (12 minutes - Chrissy you are the winner!).
In a twisted way it's kind of reassuring that none of these players have gone on to great things since leaving us. | |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:51 - Oct 23 with 1309 views | Northernr |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 11:58 - Oct 23 by lassel |
It feels a bit pointless trying to compare Celar and Frey as they’re completely different players, it’s like comparing Pickford with Ederson.
Celar is not and never will be a lone back to goal striker, it’s simply not his game and Cifuentes has been pretty clearly favouring him in a two but with Frey unavailable last night needs must.
Take a look on YouTube at the goals he scored in the last couple of seasons and you will see a pretty clear pattern of wanting early balls from deep to run onto between the centre backs and pull backs/crosses to the penalty spot. Celar’s entire game is basically getting to the penalty spot ASAP, not holding up the ball, not throwing himself at balls across the 6 yard box.
The first type is a run he has made several times here, including last night, and not been found as it’s clearly a different wavelength to everyone else. If we want to play backs to goal, hold it up and bring others into the game then 100% it has to be Frey starting and if that’s the long term strategy the I imagine Celar will want to get out asap as it’s a horrible fit for both parties.
If there is an intention to transition to a quicker and more fluid Saito-Celar-Dembele frontline then there is a lot of potential imo for it to work but the club needs to make a decision pretty damn fast about what they want to be and how they want to play.
There should be serious questions asked also about how we have gotten to the stage of having only 2 strikers who are polar opposites of each other - of course the answer would likely be that Frey was a cheap and available panic option last January and Celar aligns with the future vision but it’s a bonkers situation where we have no like for like replacement for either. |
This is a really good post. The signings we've made, individually, may have had this stat or that stat, "top 50% of our squad physically", but they don't look like they fit together into a team. As you rightly say, Frey and Celar are total opposites. Saito plays Chair's position. We're trying to use Madsen as a defensive midfielder in a 4-2-3-1, which he aint. We're trying to use Varane as the fabled midfielder to take it on the turn and progress it, which he aint. Dembele, Saito etc don't play the same style as half the rest of the other ones. |  | | |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:00 - Oct 23 with 1245 views | Hayesender |
Just watched the 2nd half back, and at one point the ball is past to Celar quite hard, but he loses it straight away giving possession straight back to Coventry. There are very audible boos from our fans towards this.
To those that were there, was there a feeling of the fans starting to turn? |  |
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| Celar - Nothing Again on 15:01 - Oct 23 with 1245 views | rbee |
| Celar - Nothing Again on 14:38 - Oct 23 by ParkRoyalR |
Gazza, c'mon let be honest and add some context here,
A club in a lower division that has spent more in the close season (£35m?) than all bar one club in the championship picked up Dykes on the cheap off us because of his wages and we somehow thought Frey & Celar were suitable replacements,
Do you think Birmingham City would have been in for Frey or Celar?
With such logic and incisive thinking, I'm only surprised you hav'nt been tapped up by our infamous Recruitment Department. |
With the Profit and Sustainabilty regulations you are allowed to lose more money in Leagues 1 and 2. Must be difficult to readjust after promotion to the Championship.
Dykes and Frey are similar players in many ways, I prefer Frey. If you need to make a tactical substitution there is little point bringing on Dykes for Frey so I can understand why we sold Dykes and for a fair price in my opinion.
If Birmingham were looking for a Dykes type player then they might have looked at Frey, but unlikely.
They would not have looked at Celar because they can afford to look several price brackets higher. | | | |
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