| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction 12:25 - Mar 18 with 18443 views | themodfather |
if mentioned elsewhere, sorry, brum reportedly facing a 12 pt deduction ( I missed the start of the report but think its ffp and signings related) ssn said it's not clear if any reduction is this season or next.
and Bolton must be close to admin, they seem to pay the players late, at best. |  | | |  |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 16:31 - Mar 19 with 3666 views | PinnerPaul |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 17:19 - Mar 18 by Northernr |
One of the many fundamental problems with FFP is it is based on accounts, which run on a financial/tax year April-April basis and only have to be filed to Companies House several months after that, usually around this time of year. Whereas football seasons obviously run August-May.
This is a problem because, as we've seen with Wolves, Leicester, Bournemouth and ourselves (though we fcked it up) you can just deliberately ignore and break the rule, get promoted spending money you shouldn't have been allowed to spend, but it only comes to light when the accounts go in nine or ten months after the promotion is won by which time you're off and away into the Premier League and out of the jurisdiction of the EFL.
Birmingham are being punished for something they did getting on two managers and nearly two years ago now. And as said, this massive delay has meant they're now in a situation where the punishment makes no difference to them. The league has tried to close this time frame by making clubs put a pre-accounting statement in prior to the summer, but Birmingham and Sheff Wed both did that, were both in breach, and basically nothing happened - they got soft, secret, unannounced transfer embargoes, which Birmingham ignored anyway to sign Pedersen.
If one of the things FFP is meant to do is stop clubs spending beyond their means and getting into trouble, then in many ways it actually does the opposite. Because this tax year v football year inbalance encourages clubs to have a big gamble for it and try to get up before the punishment hits. We've seen that at Villa, Forest, Birmingham and elsewhere. |
See you your point re financial year v football year, but the main one as you say, is the fact that clubs take so long to release accounts - its legal, but much bigger companies release quarterly, half year and full year results much quicker - it obviously suits football clubs not to. | | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 18:45 - Mar 19 with 3567 views | martiyatsia |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 17:36 - Mar 18 by daveB |
easy answer is don't employ him, when Hughes went no one would have been shocked that redknapp wanted to spend big money, could see it coming long before hughes was sacked he had his eye on us talking about us on MOTD and on the gold course. Problem we had was we had already spent a fortune with no relegation release clause so that was one last throw of the dice to avoid going down and a meltdown. Brilliantly we managed to make things worse. |
if mentioned elsewhere, sorry, brum reportedly facing a 12 pt deduction ( I missed the start of the report but think its ffp and signings related) ssn said it's not clear if any reduction is this season or next. https://filezilla.software/ https://downloader.vip/malwarebytes/ https://downloader.vip/rufus/ [Post edited 19 Mar 2019 19:33]
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| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 22:01 - Mar 19 with 3332 views | lave16 |
Is there a league table for the manager who has sent the most clubs burst - or into administration? | |
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| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 22:01 - Mar 19 with 3332 views | davman |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 09:33 - Mar 19 by Northernr |
If they do nothing to Birmingham the rules will immediately collapse. Everybody will just ignore them. Their breach was as blatant and deliberate as ours and then having been placed under an embargo they ignored it. |
Totally agree, but do you trust the EFL to get it right?
I don't... |  |
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| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 12:25 - Mar 20 with 3085 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 15:32 - Mar 18 by daveB |
Well if you took 12 points off us now we'd be relegated so it should be a deterrent for most clubs |
Except that it isn't because the punishments are inconsistent. They range from fines to transfer embargos to points deductions. It's extremely unclear and for me devalues the objective. |  | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 13:09 - Mar 20 with 3023 views | daveB |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 12:25 - Mar 20 by Benny_the_Ball |
Except that it isn't because the punishments are inconsistent. They range from fines to transfer embargos to points deductions. It's extremely unclear and for me devalues the objective. |
Well thats true but if they were to say 12 points deduction if you breach that would be a be a big problem for clubs, i wouldn't disagree though that the rules as they stand are very vague and no one really knows what punishment they will get |  | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 13:44 - Mar 20 with 2967 views | Northernr |
The rules are being kept deliberately vague and secretive because when they tried to make them black and white they wrote them so badly they nearly ended up fining a member club £50m and got themselves into a five year legal battle.
According to the Bolton stuff today, their hearing being delayed into April means any points deduction reuslting from it will apply next season as there is an end of March deadline for points deductions in a season. So Birmingham have basically got to have them off this week or next, or start next season -12. |  | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 14:53 - Mar 20 with 2899 views | TheChef |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 13:44 - Mar 20 by Northernr |
The rules are being kept deliberately vague and secretive because when they tried to make them black and white they wrote them so badly they nearly ended up fining a member club £50m and got themselves into a five year legal battle.
According to the Bolton stuff today, their hearing being delayed into April means any points deduction reuslting from it will apply next season as there is an end of March deadline for points deductions in a season. So Birmingham have basically got to have them off this week or next, or start next season -12. |
Regarding the rules on this and their consistency, does anyone recall why Luton were deducted 30 points? Did they do something really really awful?
I know it's Luton, but it did seem especially harsh. |  |
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| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 14:59 - Mar 20 with 2888 views | CamberleyR |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 14:53 - Mar 20 by TheChef |
Regarding the rules on this and their consistency, does anyone recall why Luton were deducted 30 points? Did they do something really really awful?
I know it's Luton, but it did seem especially harsh. |
They were docked 10 by the FA for irregular player transfer dealings and 20 by the Football League for breaking the rules on exiting administration. |  |
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| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 16:11 - Mar 20 with 2792 views | terryb |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 14:59 - Mar 20 by CamberleyR |
They were docked 10 by the FA for irregular player transfer dealings and 20 by the Football League for breaking the rules on exiting administration. |
I'm not sure, but I think it might have been their second administration. | | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 16:19 - Mar 20 with 2773 views | VancouverHoop |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 14:59 - Mar 20 by CamberleyR |
They were docked 10 by the FA for irregular player transfer dealings and 20 by the Football League for breaking the rules on exiting administration. |
My memory's hazy on this, but hadn't all the people responsible left the club? And wasn't the FL notified of the problems by one of the new executives? So Luton Town FC and its current employees were punished by the league for something they didn't do, and the FL wouldn't otherwise have known about. | | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 16:29 - Mar 20 with 2740 views | Toast_R |
Sounds about right, didn't they also let Leeds take a points deduction once they had already been mathematically relegated? |  | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 16:49 - Mar 20 with 2718 views | Northernr |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 16:29 - Mar 20 by Toast_R |
Sounds about right, didn't they also let Leeds take a points deduction once they had already been mathematically relegated? |
Yeh, that's why the rule changed I think. | | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 17:29 - Mar 20 with 2630 views | stevec |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 09:33 - Mar 19 by Northernr |
If they do nothing to Birmingham the rules will immediately collapse. Everybody will just ignore them. Their breach was as blatant and deliberate as ours and then having been placed under an embargo they ignored it. |
If they don't get a 12 point deduction we should ask for our money back, all £42 mill of it. |  | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 17:50 - Mar 20 with 2608 views | R_from_afar |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 17:29 - Mar 20 by stevec |
If they don't get a 12 point deduction we should ask for our money back, all £42 mill of it. |
Steve, knowing our luck, we too will get clobbered with a 12 point deduction, for the sake of consistency!
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 18:01 - Mar 20 with 2589 views | R_from_afar |
Anyway, never mind all that about Brum, what about this?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-6821963/Harry-Redknapp-EXCLUSIVE-I
"Ya see, I woz daaaan to the bare scones.."
Now, where's that coat?  | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 18:35 - Mar 20 with 2557 views | davman |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 13:44 - Mar 20 by Northernr |
The rules are being kept deliberately vague and secretive because when they tried to make them black and white they wrote them so badly they nearly ended up fining a member club £50m and got themselves into a five year legal battle.
According to the Bolton stuff today, their hearing being delayed into April means any points deduction reuslting from it will apply next season as there is an end of March deadline for points deductions in a season. So Birmingham have basically got to have them off this week or next, or start next season -12. |
That would be the best outcome for us I think; we'll need head starts on as many as we can get.
What's the latest with Wednesday and has anyone else failed on the three year rule with the latest accounts? Forest looked precarious... | |
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| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 10:50 - Mar 21 with 2338 views | Juzzie |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 17:29 - Mar 20 by stevec |
If they don't get a 12 point deduction we should ask for our money back, all £42 mill of it. |
I think our fine is spread over 10 years. Not sure how much, if any, has been paid out yet but depending on the outcome of Birmingham, Bolton and what happens to any of the clubs like Sheff Weds, Forest, Villa etc if they don't go up could then lead us to appeal I reckon. |  | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 11:47 - Mar 21 with 2274 views | RangersDave |
Putting our situation to one side for a moment, with everyone else now entering into the grey area that is FFP, and if you list them, only 3 of that list will go up.
Do you think that sense might prevail and FFP get abolished?
Villa
Lids
Brum
Bolton
Wednesday
Borough
Derby
Florist
Joke
Dull
They must all be spending beyond their means (ok some still have parachute payments)
Thoughts? |  |
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| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 12:32 - Mar 21 with 2193 views | QPR_John |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 11:47 - Mar 21 by RangersDave |
Putting our situation to one side for a moment, with everyone else now entering into the grey area that is FFP, and if you list them, only 3 of that list will go up.
Do you think that sense might prevail and FFP get abolished?
Villa
Lids
Brum
Bolton
Wednesday
Borough
Derby
Florist
Joke
Dull
They must all be spending beyond their means (ok some still have parachute payments)
Thoughts? |
This is the nightmare that the FL have brought upon themselves. Its a legal minefield. Do they go after so many teams many of which are considered "big" names and risk making next seasons championship a farce with so many points deductions or quietly forget the whole thing and risk appeals from those teams already punished. A fine can simply be paid back but transfer embargoes are a different matter and could result in compensation. | | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 13:37 - Mar 21 with 2129 views | TGRRRSSS |
Wasn't one of the reasons we got the type of punishment we did was because frankly the owners (or shareholders) can easily afford it, and it didn't tie EFL up with seriously wealthy men in lititgation for years which could create absolute chaos.
Not sure Brum et al have those type of owners.
Derby also looking precarious and the owner is looking to sell.
Losing 2 mill a month apparently. |  | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 13:40 - Mar 21 with 2114 views | Northernr |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 13:37 - Mar 21 by TGRRRSSS |
Wasn't one of the reasons we got the type of punishment we did was because frankly the owners (or shareholders) can easily afford it, and it didn't tie EFL up with seriously wealthy men in lititgation for years which could create absolute chaos.
Not sure Brum et al have those type of owners.
Derby also looking precarious and the owner is looking to sell.
Losing 2 mill a month apparently. |
No the reason we got the punishment we did is because the rules at the time were written in a very black and white way. You lose X and you get fined Y. It left them nowhere to go.
They're much woolier now. | | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 13:44 - Mar 21 with 2099 views | TGRRRSSS |
So if they don't go for Brum we still can't go after them for consistency?
Or we can at least ignore the rules going forward? | | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 13:50 - Mar 21 with 2083 views | Northernr |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 13:44 - Mar 21 by TGRRRSSS |
So if they don't go for Brum we still can't go after them for consistency?
Or we can at least ignore the rules going forward? |
No, different rules now. Less stringent, judged over three years, variety of punishments.
But, like I say, if Birmingham don't get rinsed, everybody will just start ignoring the rules even more than they do already. | | | |
| ssn brum facing 12 pts deduction on 11:16 - Mar 22 with 1878 views | BuckR |
9 Point deduction just announced from immediate effect | | | |
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