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Complaining that kingsmeadow doesn’t have undersoil heating and the women should have the same facilities as the men due to the WSL being on the same level as the PL. Controversial but unless it generates the same amount of interest and cash then it isn’t. The crowds although greatly improving the ticket prices are a lot less and I’m sure many are subsidised from the parent club there is no way is it even comparable to the national league at this moment in time.
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 20:19 - Jan 25 by DavieQPR
Ticket prices at Chelsea ladies. Adult £9 Junior and Senior £1.With a lot of tickets given away to family and friends. They shouldn't really be able to own a ground like Kingsmeadow which cost £3-4m to buy.
Er, Chelsea didn't buy Kingsmeadow for the Womens' team, they bought it for the club, more particularly as a venue for their U-21's team
In other words, they'd likely have bought it even if they didnt already have a Womens' team.
Oh and while I'm here, where has all this business about equal pay for male and female footballers come from? Hayes has never said that her players should receive what Chelsea's men are on.
Rather she's just saying that Kingsmeadow should have undersoil heating like Stamford Bridge does. Which seems entirely reasonable to me.
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Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 21:13 - Jan 25 with 2102 views
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 20:49 - Jan 25 by NewBee
Er, Chelsea didn't buy Kingsmeadow for the Womens' team, they bought it for the club, more particularly as a venue for their U-21's team
In other words, they'd likely have bought it even if they didnt already have a Womens' team.
Oh and while I'm here, where has all this business about equal pay for male and female footballers come from? Hayes has never said that her players should receive what Chelsea's men are on.
Rather she's just saying that Kingsmeadow should have undersoil heating like Stamford Bridge does. Which seems entirely reasonable to me.
If you read through the whole thread then you will see a couple of posters have advocated it.
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 18:28 - Jan 25 by BrianMcCarthy
Because they're doing the same job. The better women will be paid more and the better men will be paid more but the better women and the better men should be paid the same as they do the same job.
It's not the same job though. If the women played in the men's team, then fair enough. Maybe one of them could do a Bob from Blackadder.
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Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 23:16 - Jan 25 with 1996 views
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 18:31 - Jan 25 by BrianMcCarthy
"QPR would go bust overnight."
No, we wouldn't. Our owners are incredibly wealthy. In our case we're talking about paying maybe twenty more athletes?
Also, if legislation were to be brought in (it shouldn't be needed, mind you, as plenty exists - at least in Europe) ther should be a window. It wouldn't be overnight, in reality.
Twenty athletes at 20k per week each will rack up an additional wage bill of 20.8 million.
QPR are a business, not a charity, and the female athletes are paid by that business, not the owners direct. Wealthy owners will run a mile from football if legislation is brought in to force them to pay vast sums of money to athletes who command little attention and generate no income.
[Post edited 25 Jan 2023 23:26]
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Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 23:18 - Jan 25 with 1992 views
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 20:17 - Jan 25 by Rangersw12
Our owners have loads of money so they could easily afford to make our women's team competitive if they wanted to
Some folk on here are very quick to spend other people's money. If you feel so strongly about it why don't you sponsor the ladies team and give them wage parity with the fellas?
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Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 23:25 - Jan 25 with 1978 views
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 20:14 - Jan 25 by BrianMcCarthy
Well, now...
I don't "want to add to add to it because it would make me feel good", I just think it would be correct. I don't expect Rangers to do it either, and I don't expect football as a whole to do it, same as I donlt expect everyone to agree with me. It's just a point of view, Hucker.
And I studied Economics, but that's neither here nor there because this isn't an economical argument, it's an ethical one.
And I've done my stint at Rangers, by the way. I've been to many, many hundreds of games both during my two stints living in England and on my many trips back. This board helps me stay in touch with my club. I'm sorry if the match updates bother you. I can easily stop, it's rarely fun for me.
It's an economic argument masquerading as an ethical one because your call for parity involves subsidising the ladies' wages just to bring their salaries in line with their male counterparts. If you were championing equality by suggesting that the men's wages should be reduced to the ladies' level then that would be an argument based on ethics.
Personally I love your match updates. Long may they continue, brother.
[Post edited 25 Jan 2023 23:29]
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Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 07:48 - Jan 26 with 1895 views
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 20:14 - Jan 25 by BrianMcCarthy
Well, now...
I don't "want to add to add to it because it would make me feel good", I just think it would be correct. I don't expect Rangers to do it either, and I don't expect football as a whole to do it, same as I donlt expect everyone to agree with me. It's just a point of view, Hucker.
And I studied Economics, but that's neither here nor there because this isn't an economical argument, it's an ethical one.
And I've done my stint at Rangers, by the way. I've been to many, many hundreds of games both during my two stints living in England and on my many trips back. This board helps me stay in touch with my club. I'm sorry if the match updates bother you. I can easily stop, it's rarely fun for me.
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Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 08:42 - Jan 26 with 1849 views
Salaries are dictated by economics and those with capital, not ethics. If it were the latter, footballers and sportspeople in general would be a lot less that many public sector workers providing important state services and private sector workers creating employment and income for fellow citizens.
Now, I fully accept that the economics of football do not justify male player wages, hence so many clubs operating a substantial loss, propped up by the cash of a megalomaniac, dictator, state, tycoon, etc. Where they choose to lose their money is, sadly, their business. More of it should be taxed, but that won’t happen.
There isn’t (yet) anywhere near a strong enough business case (not ethical case) for women footballers to paid like men or to benefit for equivalent facilities. It’s no different to two different businesses with different levels of demand, talent, global reach, and revenue generation, especially when you consider the employees/footballers are not competitors doing the same job and could interchange. They can’t because women footballers would not make it the top leagues. Almost everyone acknowledges that.
In time, women’s football might well - hopefully will - improve on all those fronts. As it does pay and facilities will improve.
This isn’t a gender issue; it’s a product one. Capitalism and wealth don’t really care about the gender that generates it.
Can more be done to help woman’s football - through the clubs’ investing and piggy backing on the men’s team? Yes. Is that true parity? I want the women’s game to grow (I have a daughter who I want to play sport) but we shouldn’t see parity as something it’s entitled to. Equally, men’s pay is clearly farcically overcooked on any economic measure or work/wage comparison, so let’s not hold it up as the bar to reach.
I just found Emma’s Hayes comments entitled, tbh. I’d say the same thing about any men’s team’s coach. I’m sure women’s football will get under soil heating at some point, as it is growing as a sport.
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 23:25 - Jan 25 by Benny_the_Ball
It's an economic argument masquerading as an ethical one because your call for parity involves subsidising the ladies' wages just to bring their salaries in line with their male counterparts. If you were championing equality by suggesting that the men's wages should be reduced to the ladies' level then that would be an argument based on ethics.
Personally I love your match updates. Long may they continue, brother.
[Post edited 25 Jan 2023 23:29]
Nice arguments, Benny. Always a pleasure.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 08:42 - Jan 26 by Hunterhoop
Salaries are dictated by economics and those with capital, not ethics. If it were the latter, footballers and sportspeople in general would be a lot less that many public sector workers providing important state services and private sector workers creating employment and income for fellow citizens.
Now, I fully accept that the economics of football do not justify male player wages, hence so many clubs operating a substantial loss, propped up by the cash of a megalomaniac, dictator, state, tycoon, etc. Where they choose to lose their money is, sadly, their business. More of it should be taxed, but that won’t happen.
There isn’t (yet) anywhere near a strong enough business case (not ethical case) for women footballers to paid like men or to benefit for equivalent facilities. It’s no different to two different businesses with different levels of demand, talent, global reach, and revenue generation, especially when you consider the employees/footballers are not competitors doing the same job and could interchange. They can’t because women footballers would not make it the top leagues. Almost everyone acknowledges that.
In time, women’s football might well - hopefully will - improve on all those fronts. As it does pay and facilities will improve.
This isn’t a gender issue; it’s a product one. Capitalism and wealth don’t really care about the gender that generates it.
Can more be done to help woman’s football - through the clubs’ investing and piggy backing on the men’s team? Yes. Is that true parity? I want the women’s game to grow (I have a daughter who I want to play sport) but we shouldn’t see parity as something it’s entitled to. Equally, men’s pay is clearly farcically overcooked on any economic measure or work/wage comparison, so let’s not hold it up as the bar to reach.
I just found Emma’s Hayes comments entitled, tbh. I’d say the same thing about any men’s team’s coach. I’m sure women’s football will get under soil heating at some point, as it is growing as a sport.
"This isn’t a gender issue; it’s a product one."
Good post. That point is the heart of it. That line has been said to underpaid people probably as long as commerce has existed. I disagree, though. I think this is a gender issue.
In an industry where most employees are massively overpaid, it is wrong that there are many who are criminally underpaid. The finances are there to change that, the will should be there too.
I don't expect it to happen any time soon, but when it does I think we'll look back and wonder why it took so long.
Enjoyed the debate. Have a great day everyone.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 09:21 - Jan 26 by BrianMcCarthy
"This isn’t a gender issue; it’s a product one."
Good post. That point is the heart of it. That line has been said to underpaid people probably as long as commerce has existed. I disagree, though. I think this is a gender issue.
In an industry where most employees are massively overpaid, it is wrong that there are many who are criminally underpaid. The finances are there to change that, the will should be there too.
I don't expect it to happen any time soon, but when it does I think we'll look back and wonder why it took so long.
Enjoyed the debate. Have a great day everyone.
This doesn't apply to Chelsea, Arsenal Ladies etc as their players are professionals, but the Queens Park Rangers Ladies are amateurs/part time players. Therefore "pay" can't be equated to our male counterparts.
I would doubt that they receive any match fees, but their expenses might be met.
Of course, the question remains as to whether the ladies team are really part of the club, or whether they basically just "hire" the name!
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Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 10:35 - Jan 26 with 1654 views
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 23:18 - Jan 25 by Benny_the_Ball
Some folk on here are very quick to spend other people's money. If you feel so strongly about it why don't you sponsor the ladies team and give them wage parity with the fellas?
What a ridiculous comment 😂
You seem very angry about women's football for some reason 🤔
Where have I said there should be wage parity? I've said we could easiliy make our women's team competitive but we refuse to fund it
Although the club were happy to use Chole Kelly as a nice PR exercise so they can't have it both ways
Either fund the women's team properly or disband it
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Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 10:36 - Jan 26 with 1651 views
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 18:28 - Jan 25 by BrianMcCarthy
Because they're doing the same job. The better women will be paid more and the better men will be paid more but the better women and the better men should be paid the same as they do the same job.
League 2 players are doing the same job as PL players?
As you know we can usually see each other's points (steady matron!) but you've lost me here mate!
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Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 08:43 - Jan 27 with 1215 views
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 23:32 - Jan 24 by Northernr
Super excited for where this one is going too
I thought I’d take a quick peek out of my foxhole; the rest of my platoon are ready to provide covering fire. How’s it going on here?
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
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Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 09:24 - Jan 27 with 1186 views
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 08:43 - Jan 27 by R_from_afar
I thought I’d take a quick peek out of my foxhole; the rest of my platoon are ready to provide covering fire. How’s it going on here?
Both sides have played their way to a standstill for now with a 70% chance of further skirmishes, particularly during the hours of alcohol when certain agent provaucateurs may get more agent provaucaty.
I don't really know what the situation is with the ladies team to be completely honest - whether they're being let down, feel hard done by or just the opposite. And I do get your point in principle Brian, though I don't think things are there yet - "When will they ever get there then?" being a fair response, because I think its both an economic and an equality based argument - they can't be separated.
For now though it seems that there has to be at least an opportunity to make sure all the right support is there for the ladies team to move forward. Stuff mentioned further up abut travel expenses, kit, training - that should all be done to a standard that the club can be known for and proud of, before we even get to the question of wages and wage parity - get all the basics right while the elephant in the room is being chewed over.
[Post edited 27 Jan 2023 9:36]
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Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 09:36 - Jan 27 with 1162 views
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 10:35 - Jan 26 by Rangersw12
What a ridiculous comment 😂
You seem very angry about women's football for some reason 🤔
Where have I said there should be wage parity? I've said we could easiliy make our women's team competitive but we refuse to fund it
Although the club were happy to use Chole Kelly as a nice PR exercise so they can't have it both ways
Either fund the women's team properly or disband it
Disband it. Why waste money on what is basically Sunday pub football standard (if that). They'd be better using the money on girls academy football to raise the standard of the football
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Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 17:34 - Jan 27 with 1019 views
Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 20:14 - Jan 25 by BrianMcCarthy
Well, now...
I don't "want to add to add to it because it would make me feel good", I just think it would be correct. I don't expect Rangers to do it either, and I don't expect football as a whole to do it, same as I donlt expect everyone to agree with me. It's just a point of view, Hucker.
And I studied Economics, but that's neither here nor there because this isn't an economical argument, it's an ethical one.
And I've done my stint at Rangers, by the way. I've been to many, many hundreds of games both during my two stints living in England and on my many trips back. This board helps me stay in touch with my club. I'm sorry if the match updates bother you. I can easily stop, it's rarely fun for me.
Apologies, I was unnecessarily rude and there was no need to be.
I strongly disagree with your opinion but shouldn't have been so rude in my response.
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Chelsea’s woman team manager Emma Hayes on 20:46 - Jan 27 with 926 views
QPR ladies are little more than amateurs, they play in the same league as Maidenhead United ladies. (I know the Maidenhead Captain, as I understand it they essentially pay their own costs I think but get some advantages like being able to get some free gym access I think locally.
They considered dropping a league at one point because some of the away trips (in cars mostly) was taking up a lot of time.
WSL is different but I'd say the standards and facilities are much improved for them than 10 to 15 years ago let alone pre Millenium.
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