| Why get rid of Les? 06:09 - Feb 20 with 8521 views | alexferguson60 |
I understand why Warburton was fired.
Our season had fallen so badly that we were lucky that the game ran out.
The appointment of Mick Beale was an excellent one. People move to bigger jobs all the time. I don’t like what he did, but football is a business. He managed to knife QPR AND Giovanni Van Brockhorst in the back in one fell swoop. It took some doing.
And the appointment of Critchley may have looked good on paper, but it didn’t work out.
Honestly, I don’t understand who the fanbase wants to get in.
Why would you get rid of Les Ferdinand? The man’s a club legend and helped to steer us to some sort of financial stability. I don’t understand what he could have done more. |  | | |  |
| Why get rid of Les? on 06:23 - Feb 20 with 4883 views | Hooparoo |
At the very least, Les should offer his resignation to show his integrity and to own some of the mistakes that have been made. He’s a club legend as a player but maybe he’s shown he’s not a good DOF. We are pretty fcked at the moment and there’s no room for sentimentality. |  |
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| Why get rid of Les? on 06:29 - Feb 20 with 4869 views | BushRanger82 |
He could at least ride a unicycle, whilst juggling 4 balls and honking a horn, at the half-time interval, giving much needed light relief to usually shellshocked supporters, following the now almost traditional turgid first half we all have to endure. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 6:30]
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| Why get rid of Les? on 06:35 - Feb 20 with 4832 views | Benny_the_Ball |
You really ought to understand by now because it's been covered time and time again in many threads.
QPR are not financially stable and even if it were, Les is not in charge of finance, that's Lee's job. Sure, the wage bill was reduced but that was achieved by default not design. Simply put, the huge contracts handed out to players in the PL expired. When they did, the wage bill went down.
Les' first remit is to ensure continuity within the first team. This is to guard against having to acquire a new squad of players every time a new manager comes in. His next key duty is to provide a production line of players from the academy to the first team. QPR can then sell these players on for profit, creating headroom to be invested in the team. Finally he should implement and oversee a robust scouting and recruitment network to discover the next wave of talent. Again this is with a view to buy low and sell high, thus generating revenue.
In 8 years in situ he's failed on all counts. The churn in managers and playing staff continues. The academy is producing next to no players, and the first team is still heavily reliant on loans. Crucially he allowed Beale to bring in his own players, which completely flies in the face of the DoF model. These players are now sulking because Beale left, have cost Critchley his job and are dragging QPR into a relegation scrap.
He may have been a club legend as a player but that doesn't give him the credentials to be a successful DoF. Striker coach maybe; DoF definitely not. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 6:37]
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| Why get rid of Les? on 06:53 - Feb 20 with 4778 views | bongo_king |
LF is a legend for what he did as a player. He has succeeded in the big task of cutting costs and I believe he is very well intentioned, but there is a clear and growing list of errors piling up which unfortunately, I think, fall at his feet:
- We've discussed extensively the "manager wants manager gets" thing which has landed us with this set of players. DOF is meant to guard against this and yet...
- The long contracts for several players who aren't going to make it have also been discussed... knee jerk to the BOS/Manning thing.
- Nothing really has come out of the academy since about 2019 and Clive's insightful interview with LF basically blew the lid off why...
- No big player sales since Eze. Yes the market has changed, but other champ clubs are managing it. We were sitting on probably THE best player in the champ just 8-10 months ago (Willock), plus 2-3 other top players. Yet no bids. In the meantime, Semenyo, Downes, Tavenier and Obrien have gone for around 10m, Lewis Potter for 18m, Spence and Souttar for about 13m.... and plenty more
- Then obviously the knee jerk 3.5 year contract to a manager who then gets fired after 12 games.... reaction to what happened with MB and a dangerous precedent for future contract negotiations with managers.
All football related which surely ultimately land at the door of the DOF.
Warbs... I understood the logic of him being let go, even if I personally was sad to see him go (he felt like the right fit for us). But I begin to feel that Warbs had clocked several issues with the clubs running which are now coming to the light of day. And the way he was treated, honestly was IMO bad (something we've seen a few times with the club). | | | |
| Why get rid of Les? on 06:54 - Feb 20 with 4772 views | Hooparoo |
| Why get rid of Les? on 06:35 - Feb 20 by Benny_the_Ball |
You really ought to understand by now because it's been covered time and time again in many threads.
QPR are not financially stable and even if it were, Les is not in charge of finance, that's Lee's job. Sure, the wage bill was reduced but that was achieved by default not design. Simply put, the huge contracts handed out to players in the PL expired. When they did, the wage bill went down.
Les' first remit is to ensure continuity within the first team. This is to guard against having to acquire a new squad of players every time a new manager comes in. His next key duty is to provide a production line of players from the academy to the first team. QPR can then sell these players on for profit, creating headroom to be invested in the team. Finally he should implement and oversee a robust scouting and recruitment network to discover the next wave of talent. Again this is with a view to buy low and sell high, thus generating revenue.
In 8 years in situ he's failed on all counts. The churn in managers and playing staff continues. The academy is producing next to no players, and the first team is still heavily reliant on loans. Crucially he allowed Beale to bring in his own players, which completely flies in the face of the DoF model. These players are now sulking because Beale left, have cost Critchley his job and are dragging QPR into a relegation scrap.
He may have been a club legend as a player but that doesn't give him the credentials to be a successful DoF. Striker coach maybe; DoF definitely not. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 6:37]
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Agree with all that mate | |
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| Why get rid of Les? on 06:57 - Feb 20 with 4755 views | corse |
| Why get rid of Les? on 06:35 - Feb 20 by Benny_the_Ball |
You really ought to understand by now because it's been covered time and time again in many threads.
QPR are not financially stable and even if it were, Les is not in charge of finance, that's Lee's job. Sure, the wage bill was reduced but that was achieved by default not design. Simply put, the huge contracts handed out to players in the PL expired. When they did, the wage bill went down.
Les' first remit is to ensure continuity within the first team. This is to guard against having to acquire a new squad of players every time a new manager comes in. His next key duty is to provide a production line of players from the academy to the first team. QPR can then sell these players on for profit, creating headroom to be invested in the team. Finally he should implement and oversee a robust scouting and recruitment network to discover the next wave of talent. Again this is with a view to buy low and sell high, thus generating revenue.
In 8 years in situ he's failed on all counts. The churn in managers and playing staff continues. The academy is producing next to no players, and the first team is still heavily reliant on loans. Crucially he allowed Beale to bring in his own players, which completely flies in the face of the DoF model. These players are now sulking because Beale left, have cost Critchley his job and are dragging QPR into a relegation scrap.
He may have been a club legend as a player but that doesn't give him the credentials to be a successful DoF. Striker coach maybe; DoF definitely not. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 6:37]
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Very well said. | | | |
| Why get rid of Les? on 07:05 - Feb 20 with 4730 views | BklynRanger |
I'm not saying I do want to get rid of Les, but if I did I'd say the two clear arguments at this moment would be:
1. All of pathway stuff, as detailed by Top Cat's colleague above.
2. The decision to move on from Warburton over apparent disagreements over said pathway, yet the same recruitment questions are still there - which does now make it look personality rather than strategy driven.
Not everything that's happened since is down to Les of course, but there has to be internal accountability somewhere at some stage. I honestly don't know if that moment is now or not. |  | | |
| Why get rid of Les? on 07:09 - Feb 20 with 4716 views | earthdweller |
| Why get rid of Les? on 06:35 - Feb 20 by Benny_the_Ball |
You really ought to understand by now because it's been covered time and time again in many threads.
QPR are not financially stable and even if it were, Les is not in charge of finance, that's Lee's job. Sure, the wage bill was reduced but that was achieved by default not design. Simply put, the huge contracts handed out to players in the PL expired. When they did, the wage bill went down.
Les' first remit is to ensure continuity within the first team. This is to guard against having to acquire a new squad of players every time a new manager comes in. His next key duty is to provide a production line of players from the academy to the first team. QPR can then sell these players on for profit, creating headroom to be invested in the team. Finally he should implement and oversee a robust scouting and recruitment network to discover the next wave of talent. Again this is with a view to buy low and sell high, thus generating revenue.
In 8 years in situ he's failed on all counts. The churn in managers and playing staff continues. The academy is producing next to no players, and the first team is still heavily reliant on loans. Crucially he allowed Beale to bring in his own players, which completely flies in the face of the DoF model. These players are now sulking because Beale left, have cost Critchley his job and are dragging QPR into a relegation scrap.
He may have been a club legend as a player but that doesn't give him the credentials to be a successful DoF. Striker coach maybe; DoF definitely not. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 6:37]
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It seems like the difficulty in shedding salaries of players you overpaid for in order to comply with FFP is overrated. It appears the real challenge is producing a system of winning and selling players for profit within the confines of FFP and this is where the current DoF and CEO miss the mark and why they need to be replaced. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 7:20]
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| Why get rid of Les? on 07:33 - Feb 20 with 4574 views | davman |
| Why get rid of Les? on 07:09 - Feb 20 by earthdweller |
It seems like the difficulty in shedding salaries of players you overpaid for in order to comply with FFP is overrated. It appears the real challenge is producing a system of winning and selling players for profit within the confines of FFP and this is where the current DoF and CEO miss the mark and why they need to be replaced. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 7:20]
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That, and despite its cost, the continued failure of the Academy to produce first team players. Ozzie the only one at the moment (Illy, Sinclair and Seny joined the u23s I think...).
A hell of a lot of expense and a lot of well paid coaches for no return.
WITH the rules meaning anyone half good gets taken away for nothing, there is little to no point to our academy.
Warburton was right about our Academy - first team coaches using it's products run the risk of losing their job as it is sub-standard at best;with the current rules it is unsustainable.
... And Dave Mc on Twitter appearing to defend LF gets my goat too. He implies that LF is continually impaired by those above him. Well, if he was worth his corn, he'd tell them in no uncertain terms that he cannot do his job with their interference and if they continue to do so, it'd be cheerio. Not doing that (presumably because its a nice well paid comfortable job) totally questions whether he is right for this job... |  |
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| Why get rid of Les? on 07:38 - Feb 20 with 4549 views | PlanetHonneywood |
The OP must be stuck in 1993!
Lucky him/her not knowing what crap s/he will face in 2023. Still, they have Zamora Day to look forward to.
Im afraid Les has been more DufF than DoF. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 7:48]
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| Why get rid of Les? on 07:49 - Feb 20 with 4499 views | SydneyRs |
The question is more who would replace him. How many succesful "DOF's" are out there? And how many of those would want to come to us?
There are a number of factors in his defence.
"Manager wants, manager gets". My feeling is that the club has had to bend a bit just to get anyone to come here. Beale for example I think would not have come without some licence to bring his own players in. We are not an attractive proposition to most so would only be in a position to dictate player policy to managers of lower standing.
On the subject of Beale, he was a good appointment. Ideal in many ways. Probably too good because he was poached after a very short time. Rangers have started to look better since he arrived too. Beale was quick to note when we were top that it was probably a bit of a false position. He's a smart manager despite the way he screwed us over.
Les also appointed Warburton and I think its hard to argue that he was not a pretty decent appointment. Not perfect but did a very good job while he was here. Ironically he might make an ideal "DOF".
Critchley I think was the victim of terrible timing and will do well elsewhere.
Other managers such as JFH, McLaren and Holloway were not selected by LF, so he cannot be blamed for them.
Pathways to the first team. Very difficult in our position as bigger clubs can come and take any young talent we uncover far too easily. This has happened several times already. The alternative is to try and uncover talent that can be developed. We've done this with mixed results (no club ever gets all transfers right) but have been hamstrung by brexit in terms of looking overseas for value as Brentford did so well. Also as Clive has mentioned many times, the championship transfer market has collapsed which is beyond LF's control.
The financial picture. Massive FFP fine still being paid, losing nearly 2 million a month. Years spent offloading expensive contracts and buying on the cheap trying to avoid breaching FFP again. All while avoiding relegation comfortably. This achievement is definitely underrated. We hear about clubs like Luton who have done very well on a lower budget. But they did not have the same issues of offloading players, the FFP fine etc.
I don't know what the answer is re an alternative to LF and am not sure there is a good one at the moment. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 7:51]
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| Why get rid of Les? on 08:02 - Feb 20 with 4420 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Why get rid of Les? on 06:35 - Feb 20 by Benny_the_Ball |
You really ought to understand by now because it's been covered time and time again in many threads.
QPR are not financially stable and even if it were, Les is not in charge of finance, that's Lee's job. Sure, the wage bill was reduced but that was achieved by default not design. Simply put, the huge contracts handed out to players in the PL expired. When they did, the wage bill went down.
Les' first remit is to ensure continuity within the first team. This is to guard against having to acquire a new squad of players every time a new manager comes in. His next key duty is to provide a production line of players from the academy to the first team. QPR can then sell these players on for profit, creating headroom to be invested in the team. Finally he should implement and oversee a robust scouting and recruitment network to discover the next wave of talent. Again this is with a view to buy low and sell high, thus generating revenue.
In 8 years in situ he's failed on all counts. The churn in managers and playing staff continues. The academy is producing next to no players, and the first team is still heavily reliant on loans. Crucially he allowed Beale to bring in his own players, which completely flies in the face of the DoF model. These players are now sulking because Beale left, have cost Critchley his job and are dragging QPR into a relegation scrap.
He may have been a club legend as a player but that doesn't give him the credentials to be a successful DoF. Striker coach maybe; DoF definitely not. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 6:37]
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Spot bloody on. That may well be the best post you’ve ever put on this MB. LF cannot continue or we will decline further. A big revamp of the back room staff is now required as a matter of urgency to get this club moving forward. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Why get rid of Les? on 08:10 - Feb 20 with 4384 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Why get rid of Les? on 07:49 - Feb 20 by SydneyRs |
The question is more who would replace him. How many succesful "DOF's" are out there? And how many of those would want to come to us?
There are a number of factors in his defence.
"Manager wants, manager gets". My feeling is that the club has had to bend a bit just to get anyone to come here. Beale for example I think would not have come without some licence to bring his own players in. We are not an attractive proposition to most so would only be in a position to dictate player policy to managers of lower standing.
On the subject of Beale, he was a good appointment. Ideal in many ways. Probably too good because he was poached after a very short time. Rangers have started to look better since he arrived too. Beale was quick to note when we were top that it was probably a bit of a false position. He's a smart manager despite the way he screwed us over.
Les also appointed Warburton and I think its hard to argue that he was not a pretty decent appointment. Not perfect but did a very good job while he was here. Ironically he might make an ideal "DOF".
Critchley I think was the victim of terrible timing and will do well elsewhere.
Other managers such as JFH, McLaren and Holloway were not selected by LF, so he cannot be blamed for them.
Pathways to the first team. Very difficult in our position as bigger clubs can come and take any young talent we uncover far too easily. This has happened several times already. The alternative is to try and uncover talent that can be developed. We've done this with mixed results (no club ever gets all transfers right) but have been hamstrung by brexit in terms of looking overseas for value as Brentford did so well. Also as Clive has mentioned many times, the championship transfer market has collapsed which is beyond LF's control.
The financial picture. Massive FFP fine still being paid, losing nearly 2 million a month. Years spent offloading expensive contracts and buying on the cheap trying to avoid breaching FFP again. All while avoiding relegation comfortably. This achievement is definitely underrated. We hear about clubs like Luton who have done very well on a lower budget. But they did not have the same issues of offloading players, the FFP fine etc.
I don't know what the answer is re an alternative to LF and am not sure there is a good one at the moment. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 7:51]
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I think that's fair.
And to be fair, it's hard to think of anyone involved in the running of QPR since August 2011 who has done their job even galf decently. Even by QPRs standards, the last dozen or so years have been particularly calamitous and embarrassing.
Frankly, if you were an owner of another club and had a vacancy, any CVs disclosing a period of employment at QPR would be promptly thrown in the bin. | |
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| Why get rid of Les? on 08:14 - Feb 20 with 4361 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Why get rid of Les? on 07:09 - Feb 20 by earthdweller |
It seems like the difficulty in shedding salaries of players you overpaid for in order to comply with FFP is overrated. It appears the real challenge is producing a system of winning and selling players for profit within the confines of FFP and this is where the current DoF and CEO miss the mark and why they need to be replaced. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 7:20]
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It’s not cutting the wage bill that is the hard bir, it’s doing it without tanking like many, many clubs (Wigan, Sunderland, Sheff Wed etc etc) have done in that time frame.
That was an achievement. Warbs improving year on year was an achievement and Les was part of that. But the issue is for 12 months we’ve gone backwards. As Dave Mc says, Les has done a lot of good things in his time, but also some mistakes.
There will never be a youth ‘production line’, or if there is it will take YEARS. You cannot just say ‘we’re doing this’ and hey presto! Champ quality players stream through. The very few teams that manage anything like that: Everton, Villa, Southampton, have had enormous investment for 20-30 years to get to that stage.
Equally, it’s fair to criticise there’s not been enough quality coming through, even if it is miles clear of where we were 20 years ago. |  |
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| Why get rid of Les? on 08:20 - Feb 20 with 4327 views | JamesB1979 |
I’d certainly throw his computer (and the data) that he uses to select Critchley out of the window. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 8:20]
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| Why get rid of Les? on 08:27 - Feb 20 with 4286 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| Why get rid of Les? on 06:35 - Feb 20 by Benny_the_Ball |
You really ought to understand by now because it's been covered time and time again in many threads.
QPR are not financially stable and even if it were, Les is not in charge of finance, that's Lee's job. Sure, the wage bill was reduced but that was achieved by default not design. Simply put, the huge contracts handed out to players in the PL expired. When they did, the wage bill went down.
Les' first remit is to ensure continuity within the first team. This is to guard against having to acquire a new squad of players every time a new manager comes in. His next key duty is to provide a production line of players from the academy to the first team. QPR can then sell these players on for profit, creating headroom to be invested in the team. Finally he should implement and oversee a robust scouting and recruitment network to discover the next wave of talent. Again this is with a view to buy low and sell high, thus generating revenue.
In 8 years in situ he's failed on all counts. The churn in managers and playing staff continues. The academy is producing next to no players, and the first team is still heavily reliant on loans. Crucially he allowed Beale to bring in his own players, which completely flies in the face of the DoF model. These players are now sulking because Beale left, have cost Critchley his job and are dragging QPR into a relegation scrap.
He may have been a club legend as a player but that doesn't give him the credentials to be a successful DoF. Striker coach maybe; DoF definitely not. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 6:37]
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Word for word how I feel about him.
He was my hero as a boy and that’ll never change but he has failed in this job and he neeeds to be changed. |  | | |
| Why get rid of Les? on 08:29 - Feb 20 with 4273 views | Dixie_CT |
The arguments for Less to go are getting stronger and the arguments for him to stay are getting weaker.
It’s a house of cards down at Heston and they will hang on as long as they can but once the top man goes, their days are numbered. Hoo-bloody-rah! |  | | |
| Why get rid of Les? on 09:21 - Feb 20 with 4049 views | Esox_Lucius |
It's important that LF & LH stay as it obvious that there are some people whose QPR existence revolves around polemic assassination of somebody, anybody involved in the club and those two are the current incumbents in the role of scapegoat. I'm absolutely certain that if they left the bile would soon find another home.
All this scapegoating and hounding smacks of a victim mentality and entitlement. Coupled with a myopic obsession with getting former players/ managers back at the club and overlooking the irony in that.
If you've personally fallen out of love with QPR then move on and leave those of us who haven't to go to games, meet mates and enjoy the rollercoaster ride. Ad hominem attacks on the staff, players etc. are belittling to those making them. IMO |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Why get rid of Les? on 09:24 - Feb 20 with 4023 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Why get rid of Les? on 08:14 - Feb 20 by Antti_Heinola |
It’s not cutting the wage bill that is the hard bir, it’s doing it without tanking like many, many clubs (Wigan, Sunderland, Sheff Wed etc etc) have done in that time frame.
That was an achievement. Warbs improving year on year was an achievement and Les was part of that. But the issue is for 12 months we’ve gone backwards. As Dave Mc says, Les has done a lot of good things in his time, but also some mistakes.
There will never be a youth ‘production line’, or if there is it will take YEARS. You cannot just say ‘we’re doing this’ and hey presto! Champ quality players stream through. The very few teams that manage anything like that: Everton, Villa, Southampton, have had enormous investment for 20-30 years to get to that stage.
Equally, it’s fair to criticise there’s not been enough quality coming through, even if it is miles clear of where we were 20 years ago. |
I think that's a fair post, Antti. |  |
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| Why get rid of Les? on 09:36 - Feb 20 with 3958 views | BrianMcCarthy |
I think that the Critchley appointment has to be analysed as well. The interview on here with the Blackpool fan rang alarm bells immediately. Critchley, it seemed, favoured 442 and didn't use No. 10's. How was he a good fit for our squad then?
I think it's legitimate to ask who appointed him, and why they thought it would work. | |
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| Why get rid of Les? on 09:36 - Feb 20 with 3955 views | essextaxiboy |
| Why get rid of Les? on 09:21 - Feb 20 by Esox_Lucius |
It's important that LF & LH stay as it obvious that there are some people whose QPR existence revolves around polemic assassination of somebody, anybody involved in the club and those two are the current incumbents in the role of scapegoat. I'm absolutely certain that if they left the bile would soon find another home.
All this scapegoating and hounding smacks of a victim mentality and entitlement. Coupled with a myopic obsession with getting former players/ managers back at the club and overlooking the irony in that.
If you've personally fallen out of love with QPR then move on and leave those of us who haven't to go to games, meet mates and enjoy the rollercoaster ride. Ad hominem attacks on the staff, players etc. are belittling to those making them. IMO |
Do you dismiss all of the points in Benny,s post above ? |  | | |
| Why get rid of Les? on 09:38 - Feb 20 with 3934 views | ozexile |
| Why get rid of Les? on 08:20 - Feb 20 by JamesB1979 |
I’d certainly throw his computer (and the data) that he uses to select Critchley out of the window. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 8:20]
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I don't understand how you can have data on coaches like players? You never know what they do behind closed doors. | | | |
| Why get rid of Les? on 09:44 - Feb 20 with 3886 views | essextaxiboy |
| Why get rid of Les? on 09:38 - Feb 20 by ozexile |
I don't understand how you can have data on coaches like players? You never know what they do behind closed doors. |
The data on Beale would not have shown his selfish nature .
However a robust interview , throwing a few "what if" scenarios at him might have shone a light on his career plan . He is a modern well thought of coach , but with hindsight, granted , his vision for the future didnt match ours and we should have politely declined to make an offer . | | | |
| Why get rid of Les? on 09:47 - Feb 20 with 3865 views | daveB |
the whole data thing was blown out of the water when he said in Clives interview that Beale wasn't top of the analysis they did but he interviewed really well. |  | | |
| Why get rid of Les? on 10:18 - Feb 20 with 3737 views | HOOPNO7 |
The club is not financially stable if the owners are having to put money into the club each month.
Les has had 8 years yet has very little to show for it, we don't produce any quality players to keep or sell.
Lee Hoos has had plenty of time to improve/upgrade the facilities (toilets/food & drink Kiosks etc) at LR, how can we attract new fans or keep current ones when his idea is to create 'The Corner Bar' & charge ridiculous prices. Clueless
Both need to go |  | | |
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