| Madsen 14:30 - Sep 20 with 86672 views | Lblock |
Been a harsh critic (deservedly so in my opinion) but credit where it’s due - good game today
Put himself about and won a few tackles but also some really intelligent passes and took up good positions when out of possession
Fair play
Close to MoM but that’s Saito for me |  |
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| Madsen on 10:27 - Dec 31 with 955 views | FDC |
| Madsen on 10:17 - Dec 31 by Stocktake |
I think Norf and Brian's view is skewed by their fondness for Cifuentis and by Madsen's obvious dislike of the same. The idea that we'd be looking to replace a key midfielder who is starting to turn into a saleable asset is crazy to me. That said Norf goes to away games and has a right to be frustrated with his below par displays, |
There's probably a boring middle ground where both i) he's been a revelation relative to last year and ii) the romantic appeal of his redemption arc story has inflated the praise he's received for his performances are true.
The broader point that we are dangerously dependent on him (and also Burrell) is undoubtedly true though. |  | | |
| Madsen on 10:30 - Dec 31 with 921 views | QPROslo |
| Madsen on 09:52 - Dec 31 by hook_hoops |
The first 9 pages of this thread have acknowledged the vast improvement in Madsen's performances over last season. I now find it astonishing that after a couple of mediocre games away from home, where the entire team has been poor, Madsen seems to be singled out for criticism. The bloke is knackered. He's been overplayed because we have no one else in the entire club who can come anywhere near his level. So let's slag the bloke off and remind ourselves that he "was absolute fcking dog sht last year".
I think he has shown a lot of guts and character to improve to the level he has after the dog's abuse he was taking in the stadium and on here. Let's not start all that again. |
Madsen showed he is a gifted player when he first joined us, the last month or so of last season, and again this season in his current deeper role. For me is he is one of our very best.players along with Dunne and Burrell, who we will miss a lot in the middle of the park if he is out with injury, especially so if Chair who I think would be his best replacement though out of his best position there, is still out injured too. |  | | |
| Madsen on 10:33 - Dec 31 with 894 views | baz_qpr |
| Madsen on 21:22 - Dec 30 by Northernr |
We were probably going to finish about there anyway.
The narrative that Madsen is some God-like figure is hilarious to me.
He was absolute fcking dog sht last year, and he's improved from that abysmal base level.
Best game was against Leicester, because Cifuentes was back, got his little Instagram post in afterwards, and then next two games has gone back to how he was last year. |
lol with 2 dead ball assists of course and I think he made team of the week for the first time ever.
Maybe just maybe teams have got a game plan for him and he/we need to work out how to give him space. It's a lot easier when we have pace on the pitch and we can push up creating space for the midfield |  | | |
| Madsen on 10:35 - Dec 31 with 877 views | swisscottage |
Madsen looks bad when the rest of the team around him are sub-par.
He looks good when the rest of the team are on their game.
If none of our players can receive the ball without kicking it to the opposition every pass is going to look like a hospital pass.
Similarly if everyone keeps kicking the ball to the opposition both Varane and Madsen will spend half the game looking out of position and chasing behind players and us appearing as if we don't have a midfield. That isn't their fault that's the fault of players like Saito and Dembele. | | | |
| Madsen on 10:36 - Dec 31 with 872 views | bosh67 |
| Madsen on 10:27 - Dec 31 by FDC |
There's probably a boring middle ground where both i) he's been a revelation relative to last year and ii) the romantic appeal of his redemption arc story has inflated the praise he's received for his performances are true.
The broader point that we are dangerously dependent on him (and also Burrell) is undoubtedly true though. |
I for one think Madsen's turnaround has been a key part in us being a better team this season. When he is on it he has a Faurlin like presence. He moves the ball forward, has very good delivery and if you watch extended highlights, there he is, in the main, crunching into tackles.
I agree, we are massively too dependent on him and we are starting to see a bit of fatigue in some of his play, but we are lacking a back up. With Chair struggling a lot through injuries it's massively highlighted. The weird thing is I remember watching Kolli in the dev team and he very much played the Eze role. Picking the ball up in his own half and being a playmaker. Simply not being used in that role and he's had his own injury issues.
It could be one of the reasons we go for Edwards in this window again. The lad can play CB very well but we also know he can play the midfield role too and there is a lot of Glenn Roeder in his style of play and for those of us who remember Roeder, he could explode through the midfield and create all sorts of chances.
But I think Madsen is as close as we have had to Faurlin in some time. Faurlin, if he hadn't killed his knees so many times would have played way above our level but he was the elegant playmaker we needed who could get stuck in. The best compliment I can pay Madsen is he's the nearest type of player we've had to him. |  |
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| Madsen on 10:45 - Dec 31 with 827 views | Northernr |
| Madsen on 10:27 - Dec 31 by FDC |
There's probably a boring middle ground where both i) he's been a revelation relative to last year and ii) the romantic appeal of his redemption arc story has inflated the praise he's received for his performances are true.
The broader point that we are dangerously dependent on him (and also Burrell) is undoubtedly true though. |
Absolutely. There's no cover in CM, which is why Varane and particularly Madsen are having to basically play every minute, and if I'm being more conciliatory why they also both look absolutely knackered. |  | | |
| Madsen on 10:48 - Dec 31 with 805 views | QPRSam |
I haven't read all of the posts in this thread but I'm wondering if it's been mentioned the potential impact on both Madsen and Varane playing in a midfield 2 week in, week out?
I like Stephan and the change to these tactics have done well, but over time I'm concerned about the fatigue particularly of these two players. They have a whole lot more to do compared to last season when we'd play a 3rd midfielder to help with defensive work (Colback or Field).
I think the tactical change has helped Madsen as he has more room and space in the middle of the pitch to work with but perhaps has negatively impacted Varane as he has a lot more defensive cover to make up. Varane was the best player on the pitch in that last game vs Sunderland, but he also had Colback covering which gave him more freedom and confidence
With fatigue, don't be surprised to see it, Madsen has played the most minutes in the squad this year and Varane is 6th most played. I'm not opposed to Varane being rested in place of Hayden, it'd probably do him good. With Madsen I don't think there is an adequate replacement with his skillset, the only player who is even close to him creatively is Chair who you don't want playing deep. To those who have watched more of the DS this season than me, I wonder if Alemayehu is a potential player in that mould? | | | |
| Madsen on 11:07 - Dec 31 with 741 views | Northernr |
| Madsen on 09:52 - Dec 31 by hook_hoops |
The first 9 pages of this thread have acknowledged the vast improvement in Madsen's performances over last season. I now find it astonishing that after a couple of mediocre games away from home, where the entire team has been poor, Madsen seems to be singled out for criticism. The bloke is knackered. He's been overplayed because we have no one else in the entire club who can come anywhere near his level. So let's slag the bloke off and remind ourselves that he "was absolute fcking dog sht last year".
I think he has shown a lot of guts and character to improve to the level he has after the dog's abuse he was taking in the stadium and on here. Let's not start all that again. |
Well, look, I actually agree with you on a lot of that.
Yes he has been a vast improvement this year on last, so focus on the positive rather than the negative, fair enough.
Yes, I agree, he's knackered, and has been overplayed, because we don't really have another player like him.
And yes, it does show character to come back from where he was in May to where he is now, and that interview in the summer was great.
So I'll take it, and try and be more conciliatory with him.
My annoyance this week is they've all shown you what they're capable of against Leicester, and then regressed straight back to the mean afterwards, and I've found that very frustrating. He's been one of the worst offenders. | | | |
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| Madsen on 11:07 - Dec 31 with 739 views | priceyparkrangers |
| Madsen on 10:45 - Dec 31 by Northernr |
Absolutely. There's no cover in CM, which is why Varane and particularly Madsen are having to basically play every minute, and if I'm being more conciliatory why they also both look absolutely knackered. |
There’s plenty of cover for Varane in particular - Field, Morgan, Hayden - the manager has just chosen to ignore them all! | | | |
| Madsen on 11:09 - Dec 31 with 733 views | Northernr |
| Madsen on 11:07 - Dec 31 by priceyparkrangers |
There’s plenty of cover for Varane in particular - Field, Morgan, Hayden - the manager has just chosen to ignore them all! |
I'd certainly be using Hayden a lot more as you know.
But if you replace Madsen with one of those then, as Wilkins said higher up, you'll risk another Oxford H performance. | | | |
| Madsen on 11:23 - Dec 31 with 670 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Madsen on 10:17 - Dec 31 by Stocktake |
I think Norf and Brian's view is skewed by their fondness for Cifuentis and by Madsen's obvious dislike of the same. The idea that we'd be looking to replace a key midfielder who is starting to turn into a saleable asset is crazy to me. That said Norf goes to away games and has a right to be frustrated with his below par displays, |
"I think Norf and Brian's view is skewed by their fondness for Cifuentis and by Madsen's obvious dislike of the same."
Not in my case, Stocktake, if in fact Madsen did dislike him.
Nor was I particularly fond of Cifuentes. He did well for us, I thought, but I think Stéphan's doing well too. |  |
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| Madsen on 11:25 - Dec 31 with 653 views | hook_hoops |
| Madsen on 11:07 - Dec 31 by Northernr |
Well, look, I actually agree with you on a lot of that.
Yes he has been a vast improvement this year on last, so focus on the positive rather than the negative, fair enough.
Yes, I agree, he's knackered, and has been overplayed, because we don't really have another player like him.
And yes, it does show character to come back from where he was in May to where he is now, and that interview in the summer was great.
So I'll take it, and try and be more conciliatory with him.
My annoyance this week is they've all shown you what they're capable of against Leicester, and then regressed straight back to the mean afterwards, and I've found that very frustrating. He's been one of the worst offenders. |
Fair enough! I didn't think he was that bad at Portsmouth for what it's worth. As for West Brom, everyone had a very bad night including the manager with his team selection / positioning. Even the kitman had a nightmare. White socks with the pink kit, what was that all about! If you look like a pub team... | | | |
| Madsen on 13:52 - Dec 31 with 471 views | numptydumpty |
| Madsen on 11:25 - Dec 31 by hook_hoops |
Fair enough! I didn't think he was that bad at Portsmouth for what it's worth. As for West Brom, everyone had a very bad night including the manager with his team selection / positioning. Even the kitman had a nightmare. White socks with the pink kit, what was that all about! If you look like a pub team... |
Yes never wear the pink and black. Play as Celtic. We cant perform in pink and black. The players dont like the design !!! |  |
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| Madsen on 15:21 - Dec 31 with 392 views | terryb |
| Madsen on 13:52 - Dec 31 by numptydumpty |
Yes never wear the pink and black. Play as Celtic. We cant perform in pink and black. The players dont like the design !!! |
They didn't appear to like the green & white at Porstmouth either! | | | |
| Madsen on 15:31 - Dec 31 with 359 views | OldPedro |
| Madsen on 13:52 - Dec 31 by numptydumpty |
Yes never wear the pink and black. Play as Celtic. We cant perform in pink and black. The players dont like the design !!! |
We wore the pink and black at Blackburn and won. The 7-1 defeat at Coventry was in the green and white hoops. |  |
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| Madsen on 15:35 - Dec 31 with 347 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
| Madsen on 15:21 - Dec 31 by terryb |
They didn't appear to like the green & white at Porstmouth either! |
No but at least we showed fight after halftime and came away with a point .
Here we looked so beaten after their second goal it was both frustrating and maddening .How can we crumble so easily after the Leicester game ( I know anout the Marti grudge/revenge factor) when the whole think clicked and we dominated wildly.
Can we get to a happy medium and be competitive in every game even if we lose some.
At least fight to the death its what the fans and jersey require |  | | |
| Madsen on 16:05 - Dec 31 with 263 views | PhilmyRs |
In cricket terms, Madsen and Varane are being bowled into the ground. Madsen recently said on a pod that the three game weeks are tough – body feels fine but you're just not 100% there and he’s still adjusting to it all. He’s played a ridiculous amount (pretty sure it’s the most minutes), and of course that’s going to bite. Again, highlights how poor recruitment’s been… how do we not have a CM on the bench who can put a foot on it and pass? That’s basic stuff.
I do think certain players get picked out over others though. People have favourites and they gloss over their limitations. Compare him with Field. I thought Sam was so poor at West Brom, he hid from wanting the ball and didn't do anything productive with it all night. Whereas I felt Madsen who wasn't great, was at least actually weighting passes properly — decent balls into feet or into space that buy teammates time. If we were going to open them up and get into dangerous situations, you felt he needed to be in the build up. Moving it quickly is viewed by some as him being “scared” of the ball/hiding, but sometimes that’s exactly how you beat the press and transition before they set.
Saito, Field, Varane, Esquerdinha, were much worse than Madsen in my view, but doesn't feel they generate the same criticism, which with Esquerdinha apart, the others are all replaceable in the squad.
Player of the season so far: Burrell for me. Madsen and Mbengue close behind which I think shows how well he's done, considering we're sitting just outside the play-offs he should be pleased with his work so it's disappointing a couple of poor team performances have put the Madsen debate back on the table. | | | |
| Madsen on 16:42 - Dec 31 with 189 views | VancouverHoop |
Playing so many matches over this period is stupid.
Other European leagues don't do it, some shut down totally for several weeks. Multiple games produce lethargic performances and, more significantly, fatigued players who risk injury. | | | |
| Madsen on 17:01 - Dec 31 with 164 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Madsen on 16:05 - Dec 31 by PhilmyRs |
In cricket terms, Madsen and Varane are being bowled into the ground. Madsen recently said on a pod that the three game weeks are tough – body feels fine but you're just not 100% there and he’s still adjusting to it all. He’s played a ridiculous amount (pretty sure it’s the most minutes), and of course that’s going to bite. Again, highlights how poor recruitment’s been… how do we not have a CM on the bench who can put a foot on it and pass? That’s basic stuff.
I do think certain players get picked out over others though. People have favourites and they gloss over their limitations. Compare him with Field. I thought Sam was so poor at West Brom, he hid from wanting the ball and didn't do anything productive with it all night. Whereas I felt Madsen who wasn't great, was at least actually weighting passes properly — decent balls into feet or into space that buy teammates time. If we were going to open them up and get into dangerous situations, you felt he needed to be in the build up. Moving it quickly is viewed by some as him being “scared” of the ball/hiding, but sometimes that’s exactly how you beat the press and transition before they set.
Saito, Field, Varane, Esquerdinha, were much worse than Madsen in my view, but doesn't feel they generate the same criticism, which with Esquerdinha apart, the others are all replaceable in the squad.
Player of the season so far: Burrell for me. Madsen and Mbengue close behind which I think shows how well he's done, considering we're sitting just outside the play-offs he should be pleased with his work so it's disappointing a couple of poor team performances have put the Madsen debate back on the table. |
Excellent post, Phil.
I don't think he's one who gets 'picked out over others', though. I think it was probably my post that started the resurgence on this thread of late, but that's because there actually is a thread dedicated to him. It was an honest post, and posted on the right thread. Naturally, not everyone agrees. Human nature, so grand.
I've enjoyed the chat that followed.
I think that chat should always be on the table. | |
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| Madsen on 17:06 - Dec 31 with 140 views | mart_Goblin |
| Madsen on 16:05 - Dec 31 by PhilmyRs |
In cricket terms, Madsen and Varane are being bowled into the ground. Madsen recently said on a pod that the three game weeks are tough – body feels fine but you're just not 100% there and he’s still adjusting to it all. He’s played a ridiculous amount (pretty sure it’s the most minutes), and of course that’s going to bite. Again, highlights how poor recruitment’s been… how do we not have a CM on the bench who can put a foot on it and pass? That’s basic stuff.
I do think certain players get picked out over others though. People have favourites and they gloss over their limitations. Compare him with Field. I thought Sam was so poor at West Brom, he hid from wanting the ball and didn't do anything productive with it all night. Whereas I felt Madsen who wasn't great, was at least actually weighting passes properly — decent balls into feet or into space that buy teammates time. If we were going to open them up and get into dangerous situations, you felt he needed to be in the build up. Moving it quickly is viewed by some as him being “scared” of the ball/hiding, but sometimes that’s exactly how you beat the press and transition before they set.
Saito, Field, Varane, Esquerdinha, were much worse than Madsen in my view, but doesn't feel they generate the same criticism, which with Esquerdinha apart, the others are all replaceable in the squad.
Player of the season so far: Burrell for me. Madsen and Mbengue close behind which I think shows how well he's done, considering we're sitting just outside the play-offs he should be pleased with his work so it's disappointing a couple of poor team performances have put the Madsen debate back on the table. |
I agree with lots and lots of that.
We shouldn’t be heaping tones of praise on a midfield player who does the basics with the ball well.
But he does and no one else does so he is going to stand out . I was his biggest critic last season, and he has shoved my words back down my throat , which is what we want, right?
I will bow to the suggestion that the last 2 games he has started to hide a little again as I haven’t been present at the matches and of course you can see a much bigger picture from the stand rather than on a tv.
Even at West Brom I thought he got hold of the ball ok and I remember one sublime , almost reverse pass into Saito on the edge of their penalty area that was ridiculous. Sinton called it on comms too. Saito wasted it and there is a little bit of the issue , I think one or 2 have been dragged down by the rest in the last couple of outings . That and fatigue perhaps .
I disagree a little on Field.
I thought he was ok at WBA , better than most without really creating anything . Did a lot of the donkey work for others for very little reward.
Low bar mind |  | | |
| Madsen on 17:13 - Dec 31 with 121 views | Lblock |
| Madsen on 09:38 - Dec 31 by BrianMcCarthy |
Thanks Rsole.
And to you and yours too. |
This reads quite funny in resoect of the opening line and I your voice saying it in a sarky manner Mr Mac!!! | |
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