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What non football events could we attract? I hear that a lot about a new stadium but everyone who has moved to a new ground they don't all have big boxing events, concerts, rugby etc, they in the main have an empty bigger stadium for most of the year.
Financially there isn't really any evidence that spending a on a new stadium will make much difference in the long term unless you are an Arsenal or Spurs type club and even those 2 lose millions every year.
Derby moved to a lovely new stadium and still almost went out of business, Southampton the same, Coventry were on the brink.
Coventry getting great crowds this year, not so great in every other year when they were crap. If we went up the money generated from an extra 10,000 tickets is still nothing compared to the tv money or what you'd have to spend to get there and stay there.
My choice would always be to redevelop Loftus Road rather than move away.
It's a big "IF" but if we had managed to secure a site on OOC the proximity to the HS2/Lizzie Line interchange would have opened up a huge catchment area for non football events.
It's part of the reason why Spurs and West Ham were battling so hard to get the Olympic Stadium site. They both knew that a lot of their fans lived in Essex so the fast train connections to central London and Essex were ideal for them.
A stadium for non-football events in OOC would probably do very well. There would also be plenty of space for a hotel and conference facilities.
The downer is that QPR would never fill it unless we got back to the PL.
45,000 people are not coming to watch QPR play Championship matches, and a lot of the people who do already would be wholly put off the experience by having to walk between railway sidings and scrap yards to sit in a largely empty stadium.
The rest of it is largely a pipe dream. London is swimming in concert venues. It already has two NFL venues, one of which was built for the purpose.
Yeah. But getting to Spurs is a 'mare. Even if you live in London.
Whether we get corporate gigs or boxing matches is a complete mis-direction. It costs us a lot more per person to run LR than a new ground in terms of policing and stewarding and to compound that we have limits on corporate facilities, reduced price tickets for poor views, poor catering options limiting sales etc. We also have limited spare capacity for initiatives such as kids for a quid etc to attract new people to the club. So every matchday there are higher costs and limited opportunities.
I get that, I just don't buy that we'd get extra revenue from other events. There are obviously some benefits to moving but It won't be a golden goose for us
It's a big "IF" but if we had managed to secure a site on OOC the proximity to the HS2/Lizzie Line interchange would have opened up a huge catchment area for non football events.
It's part of the reason why Spurs and West Ham were battling so hard to get the Olympic Stadium site. They both knew that a lot of their fans lived in Essex so the fast train connections to central London and Essex were ideal for them.
A stadium for non-football events in OOC would probably do very well. There would also be plenty of space for a hotel and conference facilities.
The downer is that QPR would never fill it unless we got back to the PL.
It's all a big if as to the Elizabeth line extending to Old Oak and HS2 ever happening.
The Olympic Stadium was always going to be an iconic venue after 2012 and it was built for them so saved them a lot of money. Even they don't get that many non football events that benefit the club
It's all a big if as to the Elizabeth line extending to Old Oak and HS2 ever happening.
The Olympic Stadium was always going to be an iconic venue after 2012 and it was built for them so saved them a lot of money. Even they don't get that many non football events that benefit the club
[Post edited 15 Apr 18:10]
HS2 recently started tunnelling from Old Oak to Euston so I think that's a goer, albeit still a few years off completion.
I could be wrong about this but my understanding is that West Ham basically rents the London Stadium from the owners for matchdays, which is why they get a cheap deal. But the club gets nothing from all the other events that are hosted there.
EDIT:
Old Oak Station is still a long way off completion but the construction there is quite advanced:
Given the CarGiant site is for sale, where planning would be a breeze, the club no longer have any excuses, its the only site nearby that will come up, so they either take it and develop it properly and create a 25k modern replica of LR (if we're losing £2m a month, £100m+build will recoup in 20 years)...or they redevelop LR, reduce the capacity to 15k and make it a great atmosphere.
Non-matchday events don't generate huge revenue, promotion does, so either option works, its one or the other, just get on with it.
If you stand on Ellerslie Road and look at the ground, its on its last legs, but I'd take the redevelopment option as I love it, but if they do the new site option well, it could also be a good long term option, but sad to leave.
Given the CarGiant site is for sale, where planning would be a breeze, the club no longer have any excuses, its the only site nearby that will come up, so they either take it and develop it properly and create a 25k modern replica of LR (if we're losing £2m a month, £100m+build will recoup in 20 years)...or they redevelop LR, reduce the capacity to 15k and make it a great atmosphere.
Non-matchday events don't generate huge revenue, promotion does, so either option works, its one or the other, just get on with it.
If you stand on Ellerslie Road and look at the ground, its on its last legs, but I'd take the redevelopment option as I love it, but if they do the new site option well, it could also be a good long term option, but sad to leave.
Is it on its last legs? Could do with a lick of paint but the steel and concrete seem structurally sound, as far as I've seen. Not looked too close though tbh.
Would break my heart to see us build a 30,000 seat stadium and then in the difficult times see a 2/3 empty stadium rattling around like peas in a drum. If we were to build, make it a 20,000 arena. I don’t want to leave Loftus Road as it’s mine and others second home but it doesn’t make any money and needs a lot of updating it’s kinda out of our hands anyway .
45,000 people are not coming to watch QPR play Championship matches, and a lot of the people who do already would be wholly put off the experience by having to walk between railway sidings and scrap yards to sit in a largely empty stadium.
The rest of it is largely a pipe dream. London is swimming in concert venues. It already has two NFL venues, one of which was built for the purpose.
If the way land is developed in west London has taught us anything, if car giant sells that land it will probably look like Paddington basin within 10 years. Lots of high rise separated from a hub station by a canal.
I get that, I just don't buy that we'd get extra revenue from other events. There are obviously some benefits to moving but It won't be a golden goose for us
Arsenal gets used for corporate events and conferences a lot, you build that in and a hotel and spa into your infrastructure, add weddings etc you can make a fair amount of non football revenue and of course the obvious thing is that if you have a big enough plot and can build property you can make a ton in sales and being a landlord. Location and amenities would need to be a big factor. Dont all have to be 20,000 people events.
Barnet recently got a new stadium turned down on the site of their old stadium because, among other things, "newts" and "if an FA Cup replay were to go to extra time and penalties the floodlights would be on until half ten at night".
Arsenal gets used for corporate events and conferences a lot, you build that in and a hotel and spa into your infrastructure, add weddings etc you can make a fair amount of non football revenue and of course the obvious thing is that if you have a big enough plot and can build property you can make a ton in sales and being a landlord. Location and amenities would need to be a big factor. Dont all have to be 20,000 people events.
Yes, that's my understanding from talking to a chap on the stadium tour. A lot of money to be made on just medium size corporate events and even more if we are in the Premier league. Even hotel and spa not essential as they just need conference rooms. Even with home working companies still need to bring people together
Has anyone got an example of how much os.made from out side football stuff. I would be surrprised if it comes near premiershite tv money ???
Must run into millions but nowhere near Prem TV money I'd guess. Perhaps more significant for championship clubs as bringing in revenue through week and for 12 months
What non football events could we attract? I hear that a lot about a new stadium but everyone who has moved to a new ground they don't all have big boxing events, concerts, rugby etc, they in the main have an empty bigger stadium for most of the year.
Financially there isn't really any evidence that spending a on a new stadium will make much difference in the long term unless you are an Arsenal or Spurs type club and even those 2 lose millions every year.
Derby moved to a lovely new stadium and still almost went out of business, Southampton the same, Coventry were on the brink.
Coventry getting great crowds this year, not so great in every other year when they were crap. If we went up the money generated from an extra 10,000 tickets is still nothing compared to the tv money or what you'd have to spend to get there and stay there.
My choice would always be to redevelop Loftus Road rather than move away.
Arsenal gets used for corporate events and conferences a lot, you build that in and a hotel and spa into your infrastructure, add weddings etc you can make a fair amount of non football revenue and of course the obvious thing is that if you have a big enough plot and can build property you can make a ton in sales and being a landlord. Location and amenities would need to be a big factor. Dont all have to be 20,000 people events.
Nobody is going to want to pay top dollar to live in Willesdon .
The plan is correct though but on the wrong piece of land , if they had done the same plan t dairy could have off set a large chunk of the purchase price and build cost by building hotels around the ground as arsenal have done , and the lad cost at car giant is the same price s the land at dairy crest went for . And it’s desirable land not a poxt piece of asbestos filled warehouse site
Arsenal gets used for corporate events and conferences a lot, you build that in and a hotel and spa into your infrastructure, add weddings etc you can make a fair amount of non football revenue and of course the obvious thing is that if you have a big enough plot and can build property you can make a ton in sales and being a landlord. Location and amenities would need to be a big factor. Dont all have to be 20,000 people events.
Thats Arsenal though, different level of club and support base so they will be used a lot more than QPR. You only really have one month a year where you can rent it out on weekends with advance notice, it won't be a cash cow for us
I don't buy that we'll have that many events at a new stadium with the competition we have from other venues already established in London
You disagree, that's fine. But, with what do you disagree? Is our current site big enough? Can it be expanded without huge costs? Can LR be used for non football events, that could bring in significant commercial revenue? I remember Derby's Pride Park being built. It started as a 30,000 capacity, which could be expanded. They did expand to 34,000. Now they pull 27,000 regularly, which is roughly 7,000 more than the capacity of the old Basenall Ground. Coventry are now getting crowds they could only have dreamed about, when they were at Highfield Road. I'm certainly not advocating some soulless bowl, in the middle of nowhere, with minimal facilities around it. The CG site isnt that far from Harlesden High Street, with stations there and at Wilesden Junction. That's before anything gets built for HS2 or the Ellizabeth line. It cannot be beyond the wit of an architect to design a stadium that incorporates the characteristics of LR. Stands close to the pitch, preferably double decker with an initial capacity of up to 25,000 and the room to expand. Any success such as getting to and staying in the PL would attract bigger crowds, say 30,000+
Alright, I'll answer your questions - but please answer the one question I asked:
Are you a season ticket holder? If not, how often do you go to Loftus Road every year?
Your questions in quotes, my answers below each:
"You disagree, that's fine. But, with what do you disagree?"
That we need to build a new stadium elsewhere, and allow the current board to sell the stadium at Loftus Road. They have not earned that right. Why do think this board should be able to sell our only heirloom?
There are no examples of clubs of comparable sizes succeeding in building new grounds elsewhere that retain the core spirit of the previous ground. The business model should be as a development club that makes ends meet that way, like Brentford or Bournemouth, even Palace or Fulham. Clubs such as Leicester, Bolton, Reading, Cardiff, Rotherham, Wigan, Huddersfield etc who built new grounds but lost both huge money and league status prove the fallacy of "we must build to progress" argument.
"Can it be expanded without huge costs?"
No. But Car Giant's land cost £100m and a new stadium build will cost, let's say conservatively, £50m. Could Loftus Road be redeveloped for £150m? I have no idea. My guess is possibly. What happens to the team on the pitch when the board are spending £150m, though? Will it be good?
"Can LR be used for non football events, that could bring in significant commercial revenue?"
Who fcking cares, mate? If the club have spent £150+m building a new stadium off Scrubs Lane in NW10, it'll take 200 years of away day conferences and weddings in the arsehle of North West London to make a dent in it. Lose one dev squad goalie, one performance analyst and, I dunno, one £2m striker on loan on the bench in Germany and you've clawed back five years of commercial revenue.
"Pride Park..."
Is a dump. Sorry, The Baseball Ground is not comparable to Loftus Road. Highfield Road was a better away day than that monstrosity Coventry play in that's parked on a roundabout in the middle of nowhere outside of town. Fck both those grounds.
"The CG site isnt that far from Harlesden High Street, with stations there and at Wilesden Junction. "
Have you been there? Honestly. It's a 30 minute walk to Harlesden tube! And every step of the journey is progressively more miserable. Which is why nobody would ever make it. So they go to Willesden Junction, which could not handle 20k fans - or 10k.
Yes "that's before anything gets built for HS2 or the Ellizabeth line." Both already long delayed and public purse now emptied. Both those lines are pencilled in for dates in the "2030s". Let's see how both withstand the next budget and mayoral election.
A stadium that can accommodate another 5-10k fans situated on a brownfield in a wasteland is just not worth, in my opinion, the existential pay off of allowing this board to sell off the one, tangible thing that makes QPR QPR. I'd rather the club changed the shirts to red stripes. Loftus Road is all QPR is. Allowing Malaysian shipping magnets, American property guys and smooth-talking yuppie administrators to sell it off is delusional self-harm.
That's what I disagree with. Each to their own, though. Maybe everyone will have a lovely time off Scrubs Lane in 2035.
Didn’t they use South Africa Road as their blueprint?
I like this one. It is not a soul less replica of many new stadiums. I don't know the capacity of that but QPR would only need a 30,000 capacity as long as the site included other revenue raising facilities.
On the cost to build a new stadium, Crystal Palace are spending nearly £200m on one stand. Everton have spent £800m on their new ground. Building a 30,000 seater in London? That's going to sting!
I'm not going to recycle the good arguments on here - but this has to be looked at very seriously, doesn't it, as a major opportunity? It could be The One?
The Cargiant site is just shy of 2 miles north of Loftus Road, so very much West London (or WNW London, I know) - if not White City.
No one actively wants to leave Our Home but what can actually be done with Loftus Road if we accept that modern football (and all that it entails) will not wait for us much longer - and our DVT issues and diabolical/restricted views.
Heart is (probably) against this, Head is very much for.
Alright, I'll answer your questions - but please answer the one question I asked:
Are you a season ticket holder? If not, how often do you go to Loftus Road every year?
Your questions in quotes, my answers below each:
"You disagree, that's fine. But, with what do you disagree?"
That we need to build a new stadium elsewhere, and allow the current board to sell the stadium at Loftus Road. They have not earned that right. Why do think this board should be able to sell our only heirloom?
There are no examples of clubs of comparable sizes succeeding in building new grounds elsewhere that retain the core spirit of the previous ground. The business model should be as a development club that makes ends meet that way, like Brentford or Bournemouth, even Palace or Fulham. Clubs such as Leicester, Bolton, Reading, Cardiff, Rotherham, Wigan, Huddersfield etc who built new grounds but lost both huge money and league status prove the fallacy of "we must build to progress" argument.
"Can it be expanded without huge costs?"
No. But Car Giant's land cost £100m and a new stadium build will cost, let's say conservatively, £50m. Could Loftus Road be redeveloped for £150m? I have no idea. My guess is possibly. What happens to the team on the pitch when the board are spending £150m, though? Will it be good?
"Can LR be used for non football events, that could bring in significant commercial revenue?"
Who fcking cares, mate? If the club have spent £150+m building a new stadium off Scrubs Lane in NW10, it'll take 200 years of away day conferences and weddings in the arsehle of North West London to make a dent in it. Lose one dev squad goalie, one performance analyst and, I dunno, one £2m striker on loan on the bench in Germany and you've clawed back five years of commercial revenue.
"Pride Park..."
Is a dump. Sorry, The Baseball Ground is not comparable to Loftus Road. Highfield Road was a better away day than that monstrosity Coventry play in that's parked on a roundabout in the middle of nowhere outside of town. Fck both those grounds.
"The CG site isnt that far from Harlesden High Street, with stations there and at Wilesden Junction. "
Have you been there? Honestly. It's a 30 minute walk to Harlesden tube! And every step of the journey is progressively more miserable. Which is why nobody would ever make it. So they go to Willesden Junction, which could not handle 20k fans - or 10k.
Yes "that's before anything gets built for HS2 or the Ellizabeth line." Both already long delayed and public purse now emptied. Both those lines are pencilled in for dates in the "2030s". Let's see how both withstand the next budget and mayoral election.
A stadium that can accommodate another 5-10k fans situated on a brownfield in a wasteland is just not worth, in my opinion, the existential pay off of allowing this board to sell off the one, tangible thing that makes QPR QPR. I'd rather the club changed the shirts to red stripes. Loftus Road is all QPR is. Allowing Malaysian shipping magnets, American property guys and smooth-talking yuppie administrators to sell it off is delusional self-harm.
That's what I disagree with. Each to their own, though. Maybe everyone will have a lovely time off Scrubs Lane in 2035.
So if we stay at LR, we all agree that the ground is not fit for purpose in terms of number of seats, leg room, toilets and cramped general areas etc.
We know it's unlikely we would be able to buy houses adjoining the ground to knock down and extend LR, so is the only option to redevelop LR into a smaller capacity stadium of maybe 10-12k which would allow more leg room and other areas of the stadium would be less cramped due to less people?
Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man
So if we stay at LR, we all agree that the ground is not fit for purpose in terms of number of seats, leg room, toilets and cramped general areas etc.
We know it's unlikely we would be able to buy houses adjoining the ground to knock down and extend LR, so is the only option to redevelop LR into a smaller capacity stadium of maybe 10-12k which would allow more leg room and other areas of the stadium would be less cramped due to less people?
The cost of buying the land and building a new stadium would be at least 300 million probably more, For that money I think you could knock down SA Road stand, make it safe standing and maintain the capacity and still have enough left to do the School end.
Stan Bowles Stand and the Loft I don't think you can do much with other than make them safe standing but that would make a lot more sense to me than a new stadium in the middle of nowhere.
Alright, I'll answer your questions - but please answer the one question I asked:
Are you a season ticket holder? If not, how often do you go to Loftus Road every year?
Your questions in quotes, my answers below each:
"You disagree, that's fine. But, with what do you disagree?"
That we need to build a new stadium elsewhere, and allow the current board to sell the stadium at Loftus Road. They have not earned that right. Why do think this board should be able to sell our only heirloom?
There are no examples of clubs of comparable sizes succeeding in building new grounds elsewhere that retain the core spirit of the previous ground. The business model should be as a development club that makes ends meet that way, like Brentford or Bournemouth, even Palace or Fulham. Clubs such as Leicester, Bolton, Reading, Cardiff, Rotherham, Wigan, Huddersfield etc who built new grounds but lost both huge money and league status prove the fallacy of "we must build to progress" argument.
"Can it be expanded without huge costs?"
No. But Car Giant's land cost £100m and a new stadium build will cost, let's say conservatively, £50m. Could Loftus Road be redeveloped for £150m? I have no idea. My guess is possibly. What happens to the team on the pitch when the board are spending £150m, though? Will it be good?
"Can LR be used for non football events, that could bring in significant commercial revenue?"
Who fcking cares, mate? If the club have spent £150+m building a new stadium off Scrubs Lane in NW10, it'll take 200 years of away day conferences and weddings in the arsehle of North West London to make a dent in it. Lose one dev squad goalie, one performance analyst and, I dunno, one £2m striker on loan on the bench in Germany and you've clawed back five years of commercial revenue.
"Pride Park..."
Is a dump. Sorry, The Baseball Ground is not comparable to Loftus Road. Highfield Road was a better away day than that monstrosity Coventry play in that's parked on a roundabout in the middle of nowhere outside of town. Fck both those grounds.
"The CG site isnt that far from Harlesden High Street, with stations there and at Wilesden Junction. "
Have you been there? Honestly. It's a 30 minute walk to Harlesden tube! And every step of the journey is progressively more miserable. Which is why nobody would ever make it. So they go to Willesden Junction, which could not handle 20k fans - or 10k.
Yes "that's before anything gets built for HS2 or the Ellizabeth line." Both already long delayed and public purse now emptied. Both those lines are pencilled in for dates in the "2030s". Let's see how both withstand the next budget and mayoral election.
A stadium that can accommodate another 5-10k fans situated on a brownfield in a wasteland is just not worth, in my opinion, the existential pay off of allowing this board to sell off the one, tangible thing that makes QPR QPR. I'd rather the club changed the shirts to red stripes. Loftus Road is all QPR is. Allowing Malaysian shipping magnets, American property guys and smooth-talking yuppie administrators to sell it off is delusional self-harm.
That's what I disagree with. Each to their own, though. Maybe everyone will have a lovely time off Scrubs Lane in 2035.
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