| Stephan got away with one tonight 23:20 - Sep 2 with 8276 views | essextaxiboy |
I get that he has to rotate the squad but 5 changes were too many IMO , No reflection on the players coming in but to change half the team made the game more difficult than it should have been . Making four subs at one time also disrupted us , When Cardiff scored Edwards and Varane had retreated into the back line . We were hanging on at the end .
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| Stephan got away with one tonight on 09:37 - Sep 3 with 2534 views | BlackCrowe |
Re the original title of this thread. IMO Stephan did not get away with one, Cardiff got away with not being hammered. Substitutes and substitutees fresher for a crunch game on Saturday as a result. |  |
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| Stephan got away with one tonight on 09:45 - Sep 3 with 2473 views | Leaftree |
Ultimately got the result and got to rest some legs for Saturday. It might not be enjoyable, obviously we would rather beat teams 4-0 than make changes and hang on, but we struggle every year with squad depth. I would have snapped your hand off to have 10 points from 4 games so no complaints from me, if it is the best thing for the season overall, personally I'm just need to trust the gaffers decision |  | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 10:04 - Sep 3 with 2394 views | EN_Ranger |
I think there are clear signs that our manager has learned a lot from his first season at this level. Similar to players that come from abroad, maybe he needed a year to get into it. It’s great to see a clear game plan in our games so far this season and long may it continue. | | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 10:19 - Sep 3 with 2322 views | W9R |
Stefan prover two things last night. He can manage the selection with a view to the fixture pile up, though the real proof of that pud will come from - say 7 points from 9 by next Wednesday. The second thing was our defence is stronger than your attack.
We weren't "clinging on", we were comfortable other than when Cirkin (freshly on, still looking for the left touch line) and Saito (knackered and battered) allowed them too much space for the cut inside and the easy curler into the far corner. Other than that, for 10 + added we gave them two thirds of the pitch and they couldn't really achieve anything in the final third.
More of a concern before the subs was the yawning chasm between Madsen and our two strikers. Robertson for Cardiff had the freedom of Loftus Road in that gap and spent all first half spraying passes out wide to their left, getting them out of defence and into our fullbacks with ease. | | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 10:21 - Sep 3 with 2319 views | nick_hammersmith |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 10:19 - Sep 3 by W9R |
Stefan prover two things last night. He can manage the selection with a view to the fixture pile up, though the real proof of that pud will come from - say 7 points from 9 by next Wednesday. The second thing was our defence is stronger than your attack.
We weren't "clinging on", we were comfortable other than when Cirkin (freshly on, still looking for the left touch line) and Saito (knackered and battered) allowed them too much space for the cut inside and the easy curler into the far corner. Other than that, for 10 + added we gave them two thirds of the pitch and they couldn't really achieve anything in the final third.
More of a concern before the subs was the yawning chasm between Madsen and our two strikers. Robertson for Cardiff had the freedom of Loftus Road in that gap and spent all first half spraying passes out wide to their left, getting them out of defence and into our fullbacks with ease. |
Not sure it was an easy curler to be fair
I have some memory that Ng always scores against us, is that right? |  | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 10:41 - Sep 3 with 2245 views | BAWHoops |
The squad is good but a lot of them need their minutes managed.
Lampety, Mbengue, Kamara, Madsen, Burrell and Lloyd were absolutely spent by 65/70 mins and I felt Cardiff were starting to step onto us.
I didn't mind the big raft of changes. It's a punishing few days coming up with what looks like 3 tough games in the next 10 days.
I think the glut of changes on 60 points to a reassessment of how we manage players and their load which I thinbk is a good sign after the last 2 seasons |  |
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| Stephan got away with one tonight on 11:03 - Sep 3 with 2187 views | Rsole |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 10:41 - Sep 3 by BAWHoops |
The squad is good but a lot of them need their minutes managed.
Lampety, Mbengue, Kamara, Madsen, Burrell and Lloyd were absolutely spent by 65/70 mins and I felt Cardiff were starting to step onto us.
I didn't mind the big raft of changes. It's a punishing few days coming up with what looks like 3 tough games in the next 10 days.
I think the glut of changes on 60 points to a reassessment of how we manage players and their load which I thinbk is a good sign after the last 2 seasons |
We could have split it into 2 sets of 2 subs IMO, one at 60 and the other at 70.
Four in one go doesn’t help matters, especially if you pick up an injury or need to adjust to their subs.
Overall, I thought we thoroughly deserved the win and should have scored more before the subs to make them largely irrelevant though.
Nice entertaining midweek game, thanks to Cardiff for trying to play a bit. |  |
| Those possessed by devils, try and keep them under control a bit, can't you ?
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| Stephan got away with one tonight on 11:40 - Sep 3 with 2123 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 06:42 - Sep 3 by Gus_iom |
Absolutely this.
Chria Willock on the opposing side was a telling and sad example of what can happen if you don't manage minutes.
Preplanned subs make sense to me - everyone knows their role and what to do when the change comes. |
Good point. He isn't a shadow of the player he once once and that's all due to Beale.
JS isn't happy about the subs, but accepts it. I think we'll have to do the same.
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| Stephan got away with one tonight on 11:53 - Sep 3 with 2075 views | kensalriser |
I make PunteR the only one who's identified that the momentum shift had already happened a good few minutes before the subs and a Cardiff goal wasn't a result of the changes, it was already likely. It was obvious we'd surrendered the initiative and were allowing Cardiff too much space and time to come on to us. Two subs should have come on ten minutes before.
But all said, we've won a game with a deliberately under strength side and should be able to start with the strongest 11 on Saturday. Let's hope profligate finishing doesn't cost us. |  |
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| Stephan got away with one tonight on 12:09 - Sep 3 with 2019 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 11:53 - Sep 3 by kensalriser |
I make PunteR the only one who's identified that the momentum shift had already happened a good few minutes before the subs and a Cardiff goal wasn't a result of the changes, it was already likely. It was obvious we'd surrendered the initiative and were allowing Cardiff too much space and time to come on to us. Two subs should have come on ten minutes before.
But all said, we've won a game with a deliberately under strength side and should be able to start with the strongest 11 on Saturday. Let's hope profligate finishing doesn't cost us. |
Nope I’d back the plans and choices of Stephan and his coaching team on when the subs were made.
Clearly was meant to be a triple substitution to manage three players’ minutes but Mbengue was injured at the same time and needed to come off as well. The subs were ready a good 2 to 3 minutes beforehand but the ball didn’t go out of play. |  | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 12:33 - Sep 3 with 1945 views | Stainrod |
Thought he was late taking off Mbengue who could barely walk the last 5 mins he was on, and that after a poor display when Amadou constantly left his winger with far too much room.
We deserved the win but nobody around me was saying it was a good performance, bar a great period in the 2nd half.
First half we tried too much one touch football, and lost possession cheaply (maybe playing for the cameras a bit). And strikers isolated with Madders a passenger and Chair missed badly.
Second half we went WAY too deep. Burrell was in midfield at times and the centre mids almost becoming auxiliary CBs. It invited on so much pressure. Alfie just wafting about and not doing enough to support Burrell.
More positivity, it’s massive for us to have Burrell back firing and motivated.
Lamptey looks prem class if he can stay fit.
Dunne a colossus again.
Ronnie’s pass for Burrells second was Rolls Royce.
We won and we now have Chalr, Smyth, Kone, Curkin, JCS , Varane, and Poku (?) all relatively rested for the much sterner test on Saturday - can’t ever remember that squad flexibility in a three game week. | | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 12:43 - Sep 3 with 1903 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 11:53 - Sep 3 by kensalriser |
I make PunteR the only one who's identified that the momentum shift had already happened a good few minutes before the subs and a Cardiff goal wasn't a result of the changes, it was already likely. It was obvious we'd surrendered the initiative and were allowing Cardiff too much space and time to come on to us. Two subs should have come on ten minutes before.
But all said, we've won a game with a deliberately under strength side and should be able to start with the strongest 11 on Saturday. Let's hope profligate finishing doesn't cost us. |
We dropped very very deep immediately after the 2nd goal, then the subs were made and it got worse. A goal was inevitable as you said.
I don't know what Varane was doing but he dropped so deep he was only a yard or two in front of JCS. That led to their goal as he was so far off NG. | |
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| Stephan got away with one tonight on 13:21 - Sep 3 with 1815 views | WestonsuperR |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 08:59 - Sep 3 by TK1 |
Stephan did exactly what he had to do to win a game I have seen us draw and lose many times before. And he did so whilst not sacrificing players for Saturday and beyond. |
Agreed. We have struggled with 3 game weeks for too long. JS made the subs to enable rest of players and we still won. Nothing to complain about. |  | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 13:51 - Sep 3 with 1693 views | Myke |
I agree that we were hanging on at the end. Not so much with chances created by Cardiff, but they had us pinned back. Willock was very dangerous on the left although that improved when Adamson came on. I think rotating your defence always carries risks although I fully understand the thinking behind it. We are not just managing minutes to KEEP players fit but to GET them fully fit. I feel most managers would prefer a settled defence and to rotate further forward, and when we get Laptey and Circhin up to speed they will be our first choice FB’s either side of Dunne and Edward’s. For now it is just great to be where we are with hopefully so much more to come from this team. | | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 14:03 - Sep 3 with 1656 views | Aitch |
I think managing players time on the pitch to protect those coming back from injuries and to maybe prevent injuries is a smart move.
I think making a load of substitutions at the same time is not so smart. It did disrupt our momentum at that point. A small criticism on what was otherwise a pretty good performance. |  |
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| Stephan got away with one tonight on 14:24 - Sep 3 with 1605 views | loftupper |
More annoyed with the quality of the finishing then I am the substitutions. Said before that the missed chances will be the difference between a good season and a great season.
Tight games against the better teams require composed quality finishing which aside from Romarns second yesterday has been severely lacking | | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 15:35 - Sep 3 with 1473 views | KensalT |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 14:03 - Sep 3 by Aitch |
I think managing players time on the pitch to protect those coming back from injuries and to maybe prevent injuries is a smart move.
I think making a load of substitutions at the same time is not so smart. It did disrupt our momentum at that point. A small criticism on what was otherwise a pretty good performance. |
I think you are right, but to a point.
JS said after the game that he intended to make three subs but could see that Mbengue was struggling so made four substitutions at once.
I think this highlights the problem with the strategy.
If you intend to play three players for a certain number of minutes but then get injuries on top of that it doesn't leave much wriggle room for tactical changes and if you get really unlucky you could end up snookering yourself.
I know it's difficult with the makeup of our squad but maybe we should limit it to two pre-planned substitutions.
Hopefully it's just an early season problem while certain players are getting their fitness levels up. |  | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 02:35 - Sep 4 with 1123 views | Benny_the_Ball |
Nonsense. Stephan didn't get away with one at all. The team played well and created numerous chances. Granted, it was a nervy final 15 minutes but that was more down to our profligacy in front of goal. With better finishing 4-1 wouldn't have flattered us. |  | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 06:12 - Sep 4 with 1059 views | nix |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 15:35 - Sep 3 by KensalT |
I think you are right, but to a point.
JS said after the game that he intended to make three subs but could see that Mbengue was struggling so made four substitutions at once.
I think this highlights the problem with the strategy.
If you intend to play three players for a certain number of minutes but then get injuries on top of that it doesn't leave much wriggle room for tactical changes and if you get really unlucky you could end up snookering yourself.
I know it's difficult with the makeup of our squad but maybe we should limit it to two pre-planned substitutions.
Hopefully it's just an early season problem while certain players are getting their fitness levels up. |
It doesn’t but it depends what’s your most pressing concern. What we have is Premiership level players in Lamptey, Kamara and Cerkin who we want to keep fit for as much of the season as possible. We also have our best player from last season in Madsen. I don’t know but it’s a pretty informed guess that they’ve worked out that among the reasons we had so many injuries last season was because we overplayed people (Burrell, Madsen and Dunne), brought them back too soon without a staged return (Poku) and/or played them with a slight niggle or excessive tiredness that ended up becoming a bigger problem (Madsen?).
If you’ve worked that out and it’s your biggest concern then you’re going to prioritise your strategy to address avoiding injuries over tactics for one match. The fitness and conditioning people have obviously won over Stephan to that point of view because he actually said that the strategy they have developed is smart and because he is adopting it in matches.
If we end up with three or four fewer muscle issues which keep people out for three or four months, especially to our best players, surely it’s a better overall strategy although it might impact short term tactics. The other reason to avoid Injuring your best players (all players but particularly your best ones) is that they are your assets as well as your employees. If Burrell had stayed fit last season and had been able to score an additional 5-10 goals I’m pretty sure he would’ve attracted interest from other clubs which is part of our overall strategy of selling players to fund an overall better squad capable of winning promotion or at least finishing better than 15th every season.
It’s easier and more efficient for the fitness people to work with Stephan and plan these things in advance, hence agreeing when people are going to come off and how often they play beforehand. Stephan doesn’t have to remember it in the heat of the moment or guess when it’s the right time because it’s been pre-planned. It might impact his choices short term but if it means he keeps those players available all season then he’s going to be happy.
The other part of the strategy which I think they’ve adopted is in-game management for individual players. So some of them, particularly those prone to hamstrings have been told to not run out full pelt for a couple of games to build up this level of match fitness. Hence Poku and Burrell looking a bit tentative but then going back to normal 3-4 matches in.
In this match the two premiership players with bad injury records came off, the one coming back from injury came off (Madsen) and the one with a niggle or tiredness (Mbengue). I don’t know why they didn’t stage it more and bring a couple of them off sooner and then another two but I’m sure they have a reason for it.
It’s frustrating as fans when you see the team disrupted mid match but I’m with the strategy if it reduces avoidable injuries and keeps players available. And after all we did win! And would’ve won by more if they had their shooting boots on. |  | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 08:42 - Sep 4 with 937 views | KensalT |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 06:12 - Sep 4 by nix |
It doesn’t but it depends what’s your most pressing concern. What we have is Premiership level players in Lamptey, Kamara and Cerkin who we want to keep fit for as much of the season as possible. We also have our best player from last season in Madsen. I don’t know but it’s a pretty informed guess that they’ve worked out that among the reasons we had so many injuries last season was because we overplayed people (Burrell, Madsen and Dunne), brought them back too soon without a staged return (Poku) and/or played them with a slight niggle or excessive tiredness that ended up becoming a bigger problem (Madsen?).
If you’ve worked that out and it’s your biggest concern then you’re going to prioritise your strategy to address avoiding injuries over tactics for one match. The fitness and conditioning people have obviously won over Stephan to that point of view because he actually said that the strategy they have developed is smart and because he is adopting it in matches.
If we end up with three or four fewer muscle issues which keep people out for three or four months, especially to our best players, surely it’s a better overall strategy although it might impact short term tactics. The other reason to avoid Injuring your best players (all players but particularly your best ones) is that they are your assets as well as your employees. If Burrell had stayed fit last season and had been able to score an additional 5-10 goals I’m pretty sure he would’ve attracted interest from other clubs which is part of our overall strategy of selling players to fund an overall better squad capable of winning promotion or at least finishing better than 15th every season.
It’s easier and more efficient for the fitness people to work with Stephan and plan these things in advance, hence agreeing when people are going to come off and how often they play beforehand. Stephan doesn’t have to remember it in the heat of the moment or guess when it’s the right time because it’s been pre-planned. It might impact his choices short term but if it means he keeps those players available all season then he’s going to be happy.
The other part of the strategy which I think they’ve adopted is in-game management for individual players. So some of them, particularly those prone to hamstrings have been told to not run out full pelt for a couple of games to build up this level of match fitness. Hence Poku and Burrell looking a bit tentative but then going back to normal 3-4 matches in.
In this match the two premiership players with bad injury records came off, the one coming back from injury came off (Madsen) and the one with a niggle or tiredness (Mbengue). I don’t know why they didn’t stage it more and bring a couple of them off sooner and then another two but I’m sure they have a reason for it.
It’s frustrating as fans when you see the team disrupted mid match but I’m with the strategy if it reduces avoidable injuries and keeps players available. And after all we did win! And would’ve won by more if they had their shooting boots on. |
I didn't say I was against it. Far from it.
I just said that there's a trade-off.
If you decide before kick-off that three players are coming off at a certain point of the game, regardless of the state of the game then you are limiting your options if you then need to make further substitutions for injuries or tactical changes.
Hopefully Kamara and Cerkin just need to get their match fitness up and will soon be able to play 90 minutes.
Lamptey is a different case because of the severity and recurrent nature of his injuries so might need to be managed through the season.
Poku has also had recurrent injuries and might need his minutes managed.
I agree that Burrell, Madsen, and Kone were flogged too hard last season. And maybe Smyth was two seasons ago - he seemed to be more effective last season when he played fewer minutes than the season before.
Jimmy Dunne is a Duracell bunny and keeps going regardless, but he's not a player we can afford to lose.
I'm all for rotating players and managing minutes. It's great that we now have enough squad depth to do that, and that the club are doing it. | | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 10:09 - Sep 4 with 847 views | EuroRanger |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 08:42 - Sep 4 by KensalT |
I didn't say I was against it. Far from it.
I just said that there's a trade-off.
If you decide before kick-off that three players are coming off at a certain point of the game, regardless of the state of the game then you are limiting your options if you then need to make further substitutions for injuries or tactical changes.
Hopefully Kamara and Cerkin just need to get their match fitness up and will soon be able to play 90 minutes.
Lamptey is a different case because of the severity and recurrent nature of his injuries so might need to be managed through the season.
Poku has also had recurrent injuries and might need his minutes managed.
I agree that Burrell, Madsen, and Kone were flogged too hard last season. And maybe Smyth was two seasons ago - he seemed to be more effective last season when he played fewer minutes than the season before.
Jimmy Dunne is a Duracell bunny and keeps going regardless, but he's not a player we can afford to lose.
I'm all for rotating players and managing minutes. It's great that we now have enough squad depth to do that, and that the club are doing it. |
Slightly off-topic but since you mentioned Jimmy Dunne... I'm loving that his time as a right-back seems to have really improved his desire to get forward to move the ball on. We've seen him going bombing down that right hand side twice or even three times this season. While he hasn't pulled off a delicious Ronnie-esque pass (yet), I have hope that that will also bear fruit this season.
It's also a testament to his constant energy and high performances. I know there were some (justifiable) grumbles when he first got the captain's armband from Cook but I couldn't think of a player who I'd want as captain more! | | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 01:44 - Sep 5 with 626 views | strikerace |
I think Stephan did a good job. We have to rotate the squad and keep players fresh when we have more than one match a week, and he made the correct calculation that Cardiff was a good opponent to do it against. They are poor. We didn't get away with anything, we executed the rotation when it made the most sense | | | |
| Stephan got away with one tonight on 11:24 - Sep 5 with 497 views | TacticalR |
When we do subs it looks a train station with all the players getting on and off at the same time. |  |
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