| Laird in on 14:30 - Aug 15 with 2743 views | MedwayR |
Seems like a good signing on the face of it, he comes across well and has experience of the Championship. We needed another RB and who knows, we might be able to sign him next summer even if an agreement isn't part of the loan deal. |  |
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| Laird in on 14:39 - Aug 15 with 2693 views | DejR_vu |
| Laird in on 12:16 - Aug 15 by WatfordR |
I understand the point, but as has been stated elsewhere, Kakay isn't a youngster anymore, he's 25.
It would be different if he was 18 or 19, but he's played under god knows how many managers here and never made the position his own, so regrettably (and I do regret saying, because I do like the lad, I think he's got a good attitude), the reality is that Ozzie Kakay is probably stopping someone like Aaron Drewe from having a chance to show whether he is good enough to progress into the first team over the next year or two. |
MB has pointed out that experience is determined by games played, not age. He’s played 50 Championship games and a handful in Scotland.
If everyone thinks he’s not good enough then fine, but that’s not the message that’s been coming out of the club. You can’t use the lack of game-time for the younger players as a stick to hit a manager with, appoint a new ‘Head Coach’, make a big song and dance about his development credentials, then do exactly what the last manager did.
The club treats supporters like idiots. We’re told we need to develop our own players, but the story changes when it suits.
I’m sure Laird will be an upgrade, but that’s not the point. Either, we’re a club that develops players, that has young players worthy of development, of we’re not. Which is it? |  |
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| Laird in on 14:43 - Aug 15 with 2663 views | DavieQPR |
Our recent history with Man U isn't that good but that is down to old managers not doing their homework.. |  | | |
| Laird in on 14:45 - Aug 15 with 2642 views | PinnerPaul |
| Laird in on 14:39 - Aug 15 by DejR_vu |
MB has pointed out that experience is determined by games played, not age. He’s played 50 Championship games and a handful in Scotland.
If everyone thinks he’s not good enough then fine, but that’s not the message that’s been coming out of the club. You can’t use the lack of game-time for the younger players as a stick to hit a manager with, appoint a new ‘Head Coach’, make a big song and dance about his development credentials, then do exactly what the last manager did.
The club treats supporters like idiots. We’re told we need to develop our own players, but the story changes when it suits.
I’m sure Laird will be an upgrade, but that’s not the point. Either, we’re a club that develops players, that has young players worthy of development, of we’re not. Which is it? |
No club on earth (big statement, totally unable to back it up  ) has ever fielded a team of 11 home produced players.
Its total fantasy - you can't always tell if players are good enough until they play the game at the level they are aiming for - exactly why Laird has come here - Man Utd, or anyone else, are never gong to use the first team just to see how the academy boys cope with 1st team football!
And as for MW, worth repeating a view, I know Dave B at least (and surely others) share -we finish 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, MW is still here. | | | |
| Laird in on 14:46 - Aug 15 with 2633 views | MedwayR |
| Laird in on 14:39 - Aug 15 by DejR_vu |
MB has pointed out that experience is determined by games played, not age. He’s played 50 Championship games and a handful in Scotland.
If everyone thinks he’s not good enough then fine, but that’s not the message that’s been coming out of the club. You can’t use the lack of game-time for the younger players as a stick to hit a manager with, appoint a new ‘Head Coach’, make a big song and dance about his development credentials, then do exactly what the last manager did.
The club treats supporters like idiots. We’re told we need to develop our own players, but the story changes when it suits.
I’m sure Laird will be an upgrade, but that’s not the point. Either, we’re a club that develops players, that has young players worthy of development, of we’re not. Which is it? |
We'll struggle to develop players if we're in League One though, which is why some balance is needed, loans like this are part of that balance. | |
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| Laird in on 14:47 - Aug 15 with 2628 views | Rangersw12 |
| Laird in on 14:39 - Aug 15 by DejR_vu |
MB has pointed out that experience is determined by games played, not age. He’s played 50 Championship games and a handful in Scotland.
If everyone thinks he’s not good enough then fine, but that’s not the message that’s been coming out of the club. You can’t use the lack of game-time for the younger players as a stick to hit a manager with, appoint a new ‘Head Coach’, make a big song and dance about his development credentials, then do exactly what the last manager did.
The club treats supporters like idiots. We’re told we need to develop our own players, but the story changes when it suits.
I’m sure Laird will be an upgrade, but that’s not the point. Either, we’re a club that develops players, that has young players worthy of development, of we’re not. Which is it? |
We can be both not everything has to be black and white
Maybe we've developed Kakay as far as we can. No point cutting off our nose despite our face if we can get a better RB than the one we have just because Kakay came through our academy
Kakay is a decent back up option nothing more nothing less | | | |
| Laird in on 14:49 - Aug 15 with 2610 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Laird in on 14:30 - Aug 15 by MedwayR |
Seems like a good signing on the face of it, he comes across well and has experience of the Championship. We needed another RB and who knows, we might be able to sign him next summer even if an agreement isn't part of the loan deal. |
Likely that Laird will go back and we will be back in for McNamarra if he doesn’t extend his contract at Millwall. | | | |
| Laird in on 14:49 - Aug 15 with 2605 views | Northernr |
You're taking a big chance going through a 48 game season with one right back. As I've said all summer, the budget headroom isn't there, so we'll have to cover things like that with loans.
Where I am more annoyed with regards 'The Plant/Remit' in this part of the pitch is how we've spent the last 18 months basically letting Warburton have what he wanted, and what he wanted was Moses and Wallace, neither of whom were long term options. Three years on we've come into this summer with nobody in the squad capable of playing full back, that's a big failure. |  | | |
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| Laird in on 15:06 - Aug 15 with 2500 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Laird in on 14:39 - Aug 15 by DejR_vu |
MB has pointed out that experience is determined by games played, not age. He’s played 50 Championship games and a handful in Scotland.
If everyone thinks he’s not good enough then fine, but that’s not the message that’s been coming out of the club. You can’t use the lack of game-time for the younger players as a stick to hit a manager with, appoint a new ‘Head Coach’, make a big song and dance about his development credentials, then do exactly what the last manager did.
The club treats supporters like idiots. We’re told we need to develop our own players, but the story changes when it suits.
I’m sure Laird will be an upgrade, but that’s not the point. Either, we’re a club that develops players, that has young players worthy of development, of we’re not. Which is it? |
It can neither be wholly one or the other. There needs to be a balance between putting out a competitive team, but leaving the room and appropriate options for bringing through the development boys.
Beale, for me, looks to be the perfect fit. Warbs, as much as I liked him, tipped the balance too far in favour of expensive, old ex pro’s in his push for a top six place. It cost him is job.
We have brought in some, potentially, very good players this summer with a severely restricted budget. The development squad have also been given every opportunity to impress. Some have, others still need time.
It would appear we are again heading in the right direction, with the right man at the helm.
It won’t be easy, but nothing at Rangers ever is. | | | |
| Laird in on 15:22 - Aug 15 with 2396 views | Hunterhoop |
| Laird in on 14:49 - Aug 15 by Northernr |
You're taking a big chance going through a 48 game season with one right back. As I've said all summer, the budget headroom isn't there, so we'll have to cover things like that with loans.
Where I am more annoyed with regards 'The Plant/Remit' in this part of the pitch is how we've spent the last 18 months basically letting Warburton have what he wanted, and what he wanted was Moses and Wallace, neither of whom were long term options. Three years on we've come into this summer with nobody in the squad capable of playing full back, that's a big failure. |
Quite. Beat Les over the head for giving in to Warburton, and criticise Warburton for leaving us with the squad we had at full back, but don’t do the former without the latter, whilst saying we should have kept Warburton. It is illogical.
As I’ve said many times, Warburton was given what he wanted too much, against the gut instincts of our DoF and CEO. Given how we finished it cost him his job.
I think Les, Hoos, the rest of the Board all look back and wish they’d been stronger. We might not have finished as high last year, but we might have been better placed going into this season. |  | | |
| Laird in on 15:30 - Aug 15 with 2371 views | E1Hoop |
| Laird in on 15:22 - Aug 15 by Hunterhoop |
Quite. Beat Les over the head for giving in to Warburton, and criticise Warburton for leaving us with the squad we had at full back, but don’t do the former without the latter, whilst saying we should have kept Warburton. It is illogical.
As I’ve said many times, Warburton was given what he wanted too much, against the gut instincts of our DoF and CEO. Given how we finished it cost him his job.
I think Les, Hoos, the rest of the Board all look back and wish they’d been stronger. We might not have finished as high last year, but we might have been better placed going into this season. |
Yes agree with this. But can also see how with our finish to the previous season and with other clubs being weaker financially post Covid that we would take a punt that we could promoted last year. And for much of the year the play offs looked nailed on. So not disagreeing with your comments but reflecting that these calls are tough and look better (or worse) based on outcome. | | | |
| Laird in on 15:30 - Aug 15 with 2365 views | Northernr |
| Laird in on 15:22 - Aug 15 by Hunterhoop |
Quite. Beat Les over the head for giving in to Warburton, and criticise Warburton for leaving us with the squad we had at full back, but don’t do the former without the latter, whilst saying we should have kept Warburton. It is illogical.
As I’ve said many times, Warburton was given what he wanted too much, against the gut instincts of our DoF and CEO. Given how we finished it cost him his job.
I think Les, Hoos, the rest of the Board all look back and wish they’d been stronger. We might not have finished as high last year, but we might have been better placed going into this season. |
It's been a theme all the way through that we have a DOF, and a DOF system, but only some of the way.
Every manager that's been here under it has been allowed to do their own thing, and it's often been to the detriment of the medium and long term aims and 'what we're supposed to be doing' because managers go with players they know and like (and, ahem, agents they know and like) and players they think will get them a result this week to help them stay employed and to hell with the long term. JFH was allowed to sign people like El Khayati, Holloway was about to be allowed to release Ryan Manning on a free transfer until he got desperate and picked him, McClaren got away with all sorts of sht (tearing up the summer plans, demanding loan signings to pad the team, ignoring Manning and BOS), Warburton like we say was allowed people like Ball, Wallace, Moses, and they stuck with him over Sndre Gray when Les wanted him sent back. Even now, Beale very keen to point out that JCS and Paal are his men, and the club know how that PRs so they've stuck something about the analytics team watching them anyway on the end of it.
I'd rather we went all in on that side of the business and even further away from 'what manager wants manager gets' but we sort of try and do all three so you end up with a squad made up of manager signings, analytics signings, and players from the Hall/Ramsey side of the business. | | | |
| Laird in on 15:31 - Aug 15 with 2352 views | DejR_vu |
I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with bringing in better players, if the remit is to get the best players in by whatever means. To be clear, I want QPR to win as many games as possible, and get promoted as soon as possible, because IMO, that gives us the best chance of securing our long-term future.
But, that’s not what the club had been putting out. We had a manager who left us in a far, far better position than the one he inherited, again, IMO. That, to me, is progress. And yet, he’s no longer here, his failure to give adequate opportunity to young players strongly rumoured to have been one of the issues causing friction.
He’s replaced by someone, with an undeniably impressive coaching CV, but no management experience. But, as a club, nothing seems to be changing in terms of the development, or lack of, of our players.
This is not about MW, or MB, it’s about people at the club, seemingly, playing fast and loose, unless, of course, there was more to MW’s departure, as one or two have alluded, although without expanding.
Probably the wrong thread, the wokes will jump on it, just as they would jump on it if it was on a thread of it’s own.
Anyway, good luck to the lad. He looks very decent indeed. I hope he does well but that Ossie, somehow, keeps developing so that we’re not doing the same in a year’s time. | |
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| Laird in on 15:52 - Aug 15 with 2246 views | PinnerPaul |
| Laird in on 15:30 - Aug 15 by Northernr |
It's been a theme all the way through that we have a DOF, and a DOF system, but only some of the way.
Every manager that's been here under it has been allowed to do their own thing, and it's often been to the detriment of the medium and long term aims and 'what we're supposed to be doing' because managers go with players they know and like (and, ahem, agents they know and like) and players they think will get them a result this week to help them stay employed and to hell with the long term. JFH was allowed to sign people like El Khayati, Holloway was about to be allowed to release Ryan Manning on a free transfer until he got desperate and picked him, McClaren got away with all sorts of sht (tearing up the summer plans, demanding loan signings to pad the team, ignoring Manning and BOS), Warburton like we say was allowed people like Ball, Wallace, Moses, and they stuck with him over Sndre Gray when Les wanted him sent back. Even now, Beale very keen to point out that JCS and Paal are his men, and the club know how that PRs so they've stuck something about the analytics team watching them anyway on the end of it.
I'd rather we went all in on that side of the business and even further away from 'what manager wants manager gets' but we sort of try and do all three so you end up with a squad made up of manager signings, analytics signings, and players from the Hall/Ramsey side of the business. |
but do many teams only have players from ONE recruitment type - I don't think many do? | | | |
| Laird in on 15:52 - Aug 15 with 2245 views | kensalriser |
My feeling is that Warburton's departure had as much to do with personalities as anything else. Ever been in a workplace? You'll be familiar with what happens when people fall out... |  |
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| Laird in on 15:58 - Aug 15 with 2203 views | DejR_vu |
| Laird in on 15:52 - Aug 15 by kensalriser |
My feeling is that Warburton's departure had as much to do with personalities as anything else. Ever been in a workplace? You'll be familiar with what happens when people fall out... |
I have the same suspicion which, if true, is damning. The club is bigger than any one personality or ego. That situation should never arise or should be professionally managed. | |
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| Laird in on 15:59 - Aug 15 with 2198 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Laird in on 15:30 - Aug 15 by Northernr |
It's been a theme all the way through that we have a DOF, and a DOF system, but only some of the way.
Every manager that's been here under it has been allowed to do their own thing, and it's often been to the detriment of the medium and long term aims and 'what we're supposed to be doing' because managers go with players they know and like (and, ahem, agents they know and like) and players they think will get them a result this week to help them stay employed and to hell with the long term. JFH was allowed to sign people like El Khayati, Holloway was about to be allowed to release Ryan Manning on a free transfer until he got desperate and picked him, McClaren got away with all sorts of sht (tearing up the summer plans, demanding loan signings to pad the team, ignoring Manning and BOS), Warburton like we say was allowed people like Ball, Wallace, Moses, and they stuck with him over Sndre Gray when Les wanted him sent back. Even now, Beale very keen to point out that JCS and Paal are his men, and the club know how that PRs so they've stuck something about the analytics team watching them anyway on the end of it.
I'd rather we went all in on that side of the business and even further away from 'what manager wants manager gets' but we sort of try and do all three so you end up with a squad made up of manager signings, analytics signings, and players from the Hall/Ramsey side of the business. |
I think this is fair.
Personally, I don't mind that it's a mixture of all three, or care who first suggests the signing so long as the signing fits in with the long-term strategy e.g. JCS. But some signings clearly don't/haven't e.g. Austin permanent signing.
I'm all in favour of having a DoF. I think Ferdinand is doing a good job overall - there are times when I think he could do better, but then again are QPR ever going to attract a perfect DoF/Manager/Striker/Winger?
Ovearll, though, I agree with you that the DoF should be all-in, as you say.
This looks a good signing to me. We only have one right-back, and this seems to be the only way we can afford another quality one under FFP. |  |
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| Laird in on 16:01 - Aug 15 with 2187 views | Northernr |
| Laird in on 15:52 - Aug 15 by PinnerPaul |
but do many teams only have players from ONE recruitment type - I don't think many do? |
I'm sure, but when one part of it is making a decision like extending Wallace's contract which is completely the opposite of what the other two bits are trying to achieve it's an issue. | | | |
| Laird in on 16:01 - Aug 15 with 2183 views | daveB |
problem is there is no real right way to do it. Some clubs do great with the manager have all the say others do great when it's all the recruitment team, ultimatley it's always likely to be a bit of both at a football club.
I don't really have a problem with Warbs or Beale bringing in players they want for the team now, they are judged on results and if they have a budget for the first team are they going to want to spend it on a back up full back or a new striker, if the first choice one is any good the back is usually irrelevant anyway. The way we did with McClaren was a farce but has looked a lot more joined up thinking since then.
Where I think we are very hit and miss is recruitment for the under 18's and under 23 team, very few players in those teams look anywhere near ready for the first team and those are the ones you'd want to be your back up players ideally with the main budget going on your best players, you shouldn't need to do what we did last season and need a loan as your back up full back and a loan as your back up forward. Loans should be better than what you already had. |  | | |
| Laird in on 16:07 - Aug 15 with 2134 views | Myke |
The thing is that results trump everything else. So I see Laird sprinting down the wing before delivering the perfect cross for Dykes to head home the winner and guaranteed I am cheering as loud as anyone and Kakay wont even cross my mind. Beale knows this too of course, you only had to look at his reaction to the Blackburn defeat or half-time last Saturday to see it.
All I ask is honesty from the club - tell it like it is. We know Beale is a big fan of the importance of full backs and clearly Kakay and and Niico are not what he had in mind as he tries to implement his style and system. And I have nothing against a loan player per se ( my support for Hendrick proved that), when you pull on a QPR shirt you are our player regardless of for how long . And without a doubt we needed another RB. But let's be clear here , are we gradually developing our own players for profit, or are looking for a quick fix into the prem. I am happy with either strategy. But let me know and don't treat me like an eejit. | | | |
| Laird in on 16:15 - Aug 15 with 2068 views | ted_hendrix |
We could re-visit this thread after about six games when our current squad of players have got to know each other better and our league position and performances is known.
I said somewhere else we now have three very fast players who seem to have a fixation with the opposition's goalmouth, which is fine by me. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Laird in on 16:26 - Aug 15 with 2029 views | terryb |
The Swansea season ticket holder I play Bridge against has told me that they still love him there & would have him back anyday.
He gave the impression that they considered him the same way we did Kyle Walker when we had him on loan. | | | |
| Laird in on 16:28 - Aug 15 with 2021 views | Hoopstar |
I'm with you Ted.
Can't wait to see us line up with Laird, Roberts, Willock, Armstrong all in the same starting team.
It'll scare the bejeesus out of 80% of this league. |  | | |
| Laird in on 16:30 - Aug 15 with 2000 views | stainrods_elbow |
If we want to be properly competitive, we also need a new left back as cover for Paal as Niko is away with the fairies, a creative midfielder to improve on Dozy and Jojo, and probably a reserve striker if we can release Bonne (or even if we can't). As Beale has said, the squad isn't there yet, and it isn't, even if it has some real promise already. I like Kakay too, but he's limited at best and a liability at worst, and Laird looks like a signficant upgrade from what I've seen.
Clearly, we need to both develop our own youung players (which we've been failing to do for far too long) and use the loan market selectively and intelligently to enhance the squad. The team needs to be 'ours' as far as possible, though, or sustainability is a sham. The Florist 'model' is soul-destroying, and god help us if we were promoted that way.
Sadly, the game has deteriorated badly (ludicorus acceleration of the business side of the game (with 'realistic' fan buy-in), head-turning agents, the insatiable greed of the 'top clubs' in hoovering lower league talent) since the days when Allen and Goddard were ripping up the Football Combination, we brought them through, got fantastic service from them, and helped them on in their careers when the time was right for us and them. [Post edited 15 Aug 2022 16:32]
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| Laird in on 16:33 - Aug 15 with 1996 views | essextaxiboy |
| Laird in on 09:01 - Aug 14 by WestbourneR |
This is good news but am I the only one who feels we badly NEED a left back? Paal could be great but he’s untested and after him it’s Niko. And Niko is clearly not capable of playing at this level.
There must be free transfer out there on minimal wages who’d be a much much steadier reserve than Niko? Surely. |
I think Kakay is better left back cover than Nico . He has played their before, after substitutions . He can do a stand in job all along the back four IMO |  | | |
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