| England Thread 🏴 19:29 - Oct 17 with 258830 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
About time we had one I think? |  | | |  |
| England Thread 🏴 on 12:27 - Jul 16 with 2137 views | Watford_Ranger |
I’m not Mainoo’s biggest fan but in a squad without many actual midfielders and a few players who can ‘do a job’ there he’s found himself at about ninth choice. |  | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 12:33 - Jul 16 with 2065 views | plasmahoop |
Great quote from Tk1 about Tuchel being an abrasive German sex dungeon guy. Won't be able to unsee that now😂 | | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 12:37 - Jul 16 with 2036 views | rbee |
I think the 'He has to go' comments are knee jerk, I would give Tuchel the Euros. He has a tournament under his belt now, has learnt about the players and what his bench was missing.
If we bow out of the Euros in our usual way, with a whimper, then it would be bonkers to give him the next World Cup. |  | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 12:42 - Jul 16 with 1985 views | rbee |
| England Thread 🏴 on 12:33 - Jul 16 by plasmahoop |
Great quote from Tk1 about Tuchel being an abrasive German sex dungeon guy. Won't be able to unsee that now😂 |
Tim Vickery's comment made me laugh, how we ended the game with Pickford and ten Bats holding on to the crossbar. | | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 12:45 - Jul 16 with 1972 views | TK1 |
| England Thread 🏴 on 12:19 - Jul 16 by Juzzie |
I'm not defending Tuchal but before the "He's got to go" brigade come out in full force, let's remember that 47 teams in the tournament will not win the World Cup. Are all those managers up for the sack?
I get that many teams will get nowhere near it so really shouldn't be considered for the chop but all bar one of the expected teams (France, Brazil, Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands, Spain, Argentina, England, Portugal) will fail.
Then you have the next lot that expect to be knocking on the door (Japan, Mexico, Croatia, Morocco, Egypt).
Then you have others who did under delivered (Turkey, Scotland, South Korea, Uruguay) who I do expect the Managers to be sweating.
And then you have Italy who never even qualified! ..... along with the likes of Nigeria, Denmark, Wales, Poland etc. |
Well, so far 13 managers have either resigned or been sacked, plus Deschamps and Martinez, who were leaving anyway. These include the German, Netherlands, Mexican, Croatian managers, so some big names.
I think - and this just a personal opinion, know it's not popular - but the nations with the biggest, wealthiest leagues such England, Germany, Italy, France, Spain, should not hire mercenary club managers. It's about self-respect and you just can't imagine France or Spain doing so.
It also invariably fails, as Ancelotti, Pochettino and - as he was hired specifically by Bullingham as he announced in the first press conference "to add that second star" - Tuchel prove to varying degrees this world cup.
The final is being coached by De La Fuente - very much Spain's version of Carsley, who has coached through the national age groups since 2013 - and Scaloni, who has *only* coached Argentina, as assistant and then manager. Not too much elite club management experience there for two unassuming guys who outfoxed all this tournament.
Bring the national coach through the national system. It works. It always works. And England actually have coaches who have won international tournaments through the age groups. Just like Spain. | | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 12:57 - Jul 16 with 1872 views | rbee |
Gareth Southgate nearly worked for us TK1 but everyone got frustrated with nearly. | | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:04 - Jul 16 with 1829 views | 100percent |
Still sulking but have had the opportunity to think about the situation in more detail. Some great posts on here btw.
My thoughts are this - Tuchel was brought in to make big decisions, in big games. Southgate was seriously criticised for bottling it in exactly those moments. For Tuchel has failed on the big stage, with the best opportunity we have had in 40 years.
I would change him now so that the new manager has a full run up for the Euros, which should we qualify, are in 2 years time, also preparing for the next world cup in 2030.
also think it should be an English/British manager. His post match interview last night was indicative of someone that was emotionless to the passion and pain that those young players carried on their shoulders. If you look at the top four managers in the world cup, each one are from their respective countries, so they know and feel the emotions involved in representing their nation's national team. i also don't hold with the excuse that managers have to have won everything at club level - De la Feunte only managed at Bilbao and Espanyol, Scaloni was only the assistant at Sevilla.... It's only in England that we struggle with national identity due to the obvious reasons.
We also need the FA to decide what they want England to be. Identify a style, manner and method that suits our football and work towards teaching that method all the way down to grass roots football in schools. That is why Spain have succeeded. they have invested heavily from top to tail football methodology. Their manager was primed and identified way back when they decided that Bosque
was asked to step down. He's not a superstar, has not managed team football at a very high level, but understands what the method and style is that the nation expects.
Seriously peeved with the situation... we have so much talent but the squad never reflected the best of England. Change after the losers final on saturday please.... [Post edited 16 Jul 13:08]
|  | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:14 - Jul 16 with 1777 views | nick_hammersmith |
| England Thread 🏴 on 12:57 - Jul 16 by rbee |
Gareth Southgate nearly worked for us TK1 but everyone got frustrated with nearly. |
Southgate for me was like playing with the handbrake on, might win you matches, but you are left feeling like "what if we just went for it for 90'?" |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:14 - Jul 16 with 1777 views | TheChef |
| England Thread 🏴 on 11:40 - Jul 16 by DejR_vu |
I agree 100% on the squad selection, but that's a different debate.
We got ourselves ahead and then the players that did it imploded. There's no way he's told them to retreat like that. There's no point swapping Gordon like-for-like because we weren't getting the ball out. Rashford would have had the same problem. There was no one on the bench capable of wrestling the midfield back, the players most capable of doing that were already on the pitch. He gave them to minute 72 before making one change, then another 10 and we were seriously rocking by then. An equaliser looked inevitable. We were under the cosh, wave after wave, so if we're doing that he may as well try and close the gaps, get more bodies back and try to smother them. I'm sure he didn't tell them all to stay in the 18 yard box and give Messi 20 yards of space. It didn't work, but he had to try something. I'm no Tuchel fan but I'm not sure what else he could have realistically done. This looks more like a mentality issue to me. These players just crumble against the best teams. |
Although he only made the subs on 82 minutes when James had to go off injured, unless that was the plan anyway. And we conceded three minutes later... |  |
| |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:15 - Jul 16 with 1774 views | KensalT |
| England Thread 🏴 on 12:45 - Jul 16 by TK1 |
Well, so far 13 managers have either resigned or been sacked, plus Deschamps and Martinez, who were leaving anyway. These include the German, Netherlands, Mexican, Croatian managers, so some big names.
I think - and this just a personal opinion, know it's not popular - but the nations with the biggest, wealthiest leagues such England, Germany, Italy, France, Spain, should not hire mercenary club managers. It's about self-respect and you just can't imagine France or Spain doing so.
It also invariably fails, as Ancelotti, Pochettino and - as he was hired specifically by Bullingham as he announced in the first press conference "to add that second star" - Tuchel prove to varying degrees this world cup.
The final is being coached by De La Fuente - very much Spain's version of Carsley, who has coached through the national age groups since 2013 - and Scaloni, who has *only* coached Argentina, as assistant and then manager. Not too much elite club management experience there for two unassuming guys who outfoxed all this tournament.
Bring the national coach through the national system. It works. It always works. And England actually have coaches who have won international tournaments through the age groups. Just like Spain. |
Lee Carsley did get six games as Interim England Manager.
I can't recall too many complaints when he was overlooked for the bigger name and more charismatic figure of Thomas Tuchel!
A fundamental difference between Spain and us is that they have far more coaches with UEFA Pro and A Licenses than we do. And unlike our football where the top coaches are working with first team footballers, in Spain the overwhelming majority of their top coaches are working with kids.
That's where they get their big head start over us! [Post edited 16 Jul 13:16]
|  | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:20 - Jul 16 with 1721 views | DannytheR |
| England Thread 🏴 on 12:57 - Jul 16 by rbee |
Gareth Southgate nearly worked for us TK1 but everyone got frustrated with nearly. |
That might say less about Southgate than about everyone. |  | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:26 - Jul 16 with 1669 views | paulparker |
| England Thread 🏴 on 12:19 - Jul 16 by Juzzie |
I'm not defending Tuchal but before the "He's got to go" brigade come out in full force, let's remember that 47 teams in the tournament will not win the World Cup. Are all those managers up for the sack?
I get that many teams will get nowhere near it so really shouldn't be considered for the chop but all bar one of the expected teams (France, Brazil, Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands, Spain, Argentina, England, Portugal) will fail.
Then you have the next lot that expect to be knocking on the door (Japan, Mexico, Croatia, Morocco, Egypt).
Then you have others who did under delivered (Turkey, Scotland, South Korea, Uruguay) who I do expect the Managers to be sweating.
And then you have Italy who never even qualified! ..... along with the likes of Nigeria, Denmark, Wales, Poland etc. |
That’s a good point but those other countries are not paying their managers around 8 million a year
The appointment of Tuchel was for games like this , and what he served up bar the Croatia game and a bit of Mexico was as bad a Southgate in the last Euros , and as for that disjointed squad the less said the better
Nothing is going to change with this manager Imso let’s cut our losses and get in Carsley who wants to play expansive football or Eddie Howe |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
|
| |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:28 - Jul 16 with 1670 views | DejR_vu |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:14 - Jul 16 by TheChef |
Although he only made the subs on 82 minutes when James had to go off injured, unless that was the plan anyway. And we conceded three minutes later... |
Yeah it didn't work but I'm intrigued by what people realistically think he could have done. Our first team has crumbled, camped itself on the edge of our box. It's easy after the event but looking at that bench who could he have brought on, and for whom, that screams 'yeah, that'll sort it'? Switching like-for-like isn't likely to solve the problem, so that rules out the wingers. No one's going to want Kane off. No one's going to take Bellingham off. Rice still looked out of sorts as the game went on so I think that was forced on him. You wouldn't take Anderson off. Rogers can drop back in. So who's left that could go into midfield that's going to be an improvement? Mainoo for Rice, maybe? But that makes us weaker imo.
Like I say, I'm no Tuchel fan but those players are getting off lightly. They're on the pitch, they're imploding, they're giving the ball back at every opportunity, they're giving Messi acres of space. I can't believe Tuchel has told them to do any of that. These players need to take a huge chunk of responsibility. [Post edited 16 Jul 13:30]
| |
| |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:30 - Jul 16 with 1646 views | QPROslo |
| England Thread 🏴 on 22:52 - Jul 15 by BYRNE10 |
Another shit manager, take off an attacking player and bring on a defender.
Then do the same again and when we inevitably concede, we can’t do anything about it.
Genius
Although the players didn’t help him, they started retreating from the 30th minute of this game and never really stopped after.
I actually think we’re just not good enough.
Argentina are way better than us , that’s the honest truth.
Will never win a World Cup until we learn to control games like Spain do.
Hold your breath. |
England need to use midfield players who can both keep the ball, create chances and score. Of the players used only Bellingham did that. Eze who can was barely used in the tournament, Mainoo not at all, both would have helped England keep the ball after going 1 up (and before), as would Rice and Rogers who Tuchel took off. Absurd to give up the centre of the park to Argentina just a goal up and over 20 minutes to play. | | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:31 - Jul 16 with 1629 views | DejR_vu |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:30 - Jul 16 by QPROslo |
England need to use midfield players who can both keep the ball, create chances and score. Of the players used only Bellingham did that. Eze who can was barely used in the tournament, Mainoo not at all, both would have helped England keep the ball after going 1 up (and before), as would Rice and Rogers who Tuchel took off. Absurd to give up the centre of the park to Argentina just a goal up and over 20 minutes to play. |
Eze's been absolutely woeful. He would have been a passenger imo. | |
| |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:36 - Jul 16 with 1592 views | TheChef |
Hadn't noticed this either. In as much as it would have made any difference in the end. | |
| |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:41 - Jul 16 with 1539 views | loftus77 |
I'm still not over Turin 1990. That was The One. Outplayed the clear world champions-elect and sooo deserved to win. A Ranger in the side too.
Last night, disappointed but less affected. Must be age. [Post edited 16 Jul 13:42]
| | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:52 - Jul 16 with 1480 views | QPROslo |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:31 - Jul 16 by DejR_vu |
Eze's been absolutely woeful. He would have been a passenger imo. |
I thought Eze did well, and would have done better given more time on the pitch. England need players with his skills, we always seem to play too many of the Rice, Anderson types who as solid as theyare don't have the creativity to win us games at this level. | | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 14:12 - Jul 16 with 1363 views | TK1 |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:15 - Jul 16 by KensalT |
Lee Carsley did get six games as Interim England Manager.
I can't recall too many complaints when he was overlooked for the bigger name and more charismatic figure of Thomas Tuchel!
A fundamental difference between Spain and us is that they have far more coaches with UEFA Pro and A Licenses than we do. And unlike our football where the top coaches are working with first team footballers, in Spain the overwhelming majority of their top coaches are working with kids.
That's where they get their big head start over us! [Post edited 16 Jul 13:16]
|
Won 5, lost one. Including a very good 3-0 away at Greece (on the back of a disappointing 1-2 defeat). I would not have been against him based on that, and his winning work with the U21s, though I understand it might have been a hard sell from the razzmatazz obsessed and commercially-focused FA. Plus he didn't appear to want it.
Agree about the Spanish coaches pathway and licences. The two are linked. Over half the clubs in La Liga are coached by Spaniards, so obviously doing your badges, working up through the ages has more appeal than in England, where your' eeither a promoted Championship manager (though less and less) or Eddie Howe.
FA and PL clubs mostly focussed on money and reach, which is fine, but perhaps also worth FA considering why they've spent so much money on expensive big name club managers from abroad to coach the national team for so little reward, when an in-house domestic hire with not much pedigree has so far come closest to winning something. How do they nurture more and better of those? | | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 14:14 - Jul 16 with 1351 views | daveB |
| England Thread 🏴 on 11:27 - Jul 16 by TK1 |
You may not mind it now but in years to come there will be documentaries and endless podcasts about the crazy German coach of England who chose not to bring Cole Palmer, Trent AA, Adam Wharton and Phil Foden in their mid 20s to a world cup, but instead brought Chalobah, Burn, Toney and 400-year-old Jordan Henderson, most of whom mostly sat on the bench because they offered nothing different. It's career vandalism. I wonder what Bellingham and Saka think of it.
Mainoo I think is too unreliable in/out of possession. But agree it's insane not to have deployed Saka, Watkins, even Maduke and Eze to run at them and behind their very slow and cautioned defenders. Sackable offence. England had a great run, but they had a relatively easy run and they should've been beaten in the final by Spain. |
There were reasons for it though, Foden has been poor for 2 seasons now and hasn't had a good game for England in at least 4 years. Palmer has been injured a lot and didn't have a good season. Likes of Morgan Rogers and Gordon had better season and jumped ahead of them
Trent another didn't have a good season and injured a lot. They were not all playing great and left out. He brought Spence instead of Trent who was one of our best players this tournament.
I don't think they are the reason we went out. We had more than enough in that squad to not self harm int he last 30 minutes last night. We might have lost anyway if we had kept trying to attack as Argentina are a very good side but we beat ourselves. That defeat is all about mindset that starts with the manager, he/they bottled it in the big moment |  | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 14:15 - Jul 16 with 1335 views | OakR |
Talking abou getting rid of Tuchel is a strange one in many ways.
Qualified easily
Got to WC Semis which we rarely do
Played well for most of the Semi-Final and were 1-0 up with less than 10 minutes left.
We all want to win, but most of use would have taken that as a decent WC before it started.
As others have said above though, he was brought in to manage these moments and failed miserably. This was all on him, sometimes you can blame players but this was 100% him. Squad selection and tactics / subs. This was a missed opportunity and that is why everyone is so frustrated this morning.
I suspect he will stay as on paper he has (probably) achieved the minimum target set for him.I'd be more than happy if he leff. He failed on the major aspect he was brought in for, we will have a great chance at the Euros, I'd rather have someone else at the helm. | |
| |
| England Thread 🏴 on 14:17 - Jul 16 with 1321 views | TheChef |
| England Thread 🏴 on 14:12 - Jul 16 by TK1 |
Won 5, lost one. Including a very good 3-0 away at Greece (on the back of a disappointing 1-2 defeat). I would not have been against him based on that, and his winning work with the U21s, though I understand it might have been a hard sell from the razzmatazz obsessed and commercially-focused FA. Plus he didn't appear to want it.
Agree about the Spanish coaches pathway and licences. The two are linked. Over half the clubs in La Liga are coached by Spaniards, so obviously doing your badges, working up through the ages has more appeal than in England, where your' eeither a promoted Championship manager (though less and less) or Eddie Howe.
FA and PL clubs mostly focussed on money and reach, which is fine, but perhaps also worth FA considering why they've spent so much money on expensive big name club managers from abroad to coach the national team for so little reward, when an in-house domestic hire with not much pedigree has so far come closest to winning something. How do they nurture more and better of those? |
I'd have been perfectly fine with Carsley getting the job, but the FA is obsessed with spending money on names.
Scaloni basically got the job by default without a huge amount of top flight management experience - worked out fine for them.
Unfortunately the FA is just another UK sporting body that is not fit for purpose. | |
| |
| England Thread 🏴 on 14:18 - Jul 16 with 1315 views | daveB |
England have the Nations league next in the same group as Spain, if we do nothing in that I think he might walk. | | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 14:21 - Jul 16 with 1283 views | TheChef |
| England Thread 🏴 on 14:18 - Jul 16 by daveB |
England have the Nations league next in the same group as Spain, if we do nothing in that I think he might walk. |
You see we do get to play them anyway  | |
| |
| England Thread 🏴 on 14:28 - Jul 16 with 1249 views | ted_hendrix |
| England Thread 🏴 on 13:04 - Jul 16 by 100percent |
Still sulking but have had the opportunity to think about the situation in more detail. Some great posts on here btw.
My thoughts are this - Tuchel was brought in to make big decisions, in big games. Southgate was seriously criticised for bottling it in exactly those moments. For Tuchel has failed on the big stage, with the best opportunity we have had in 40 years.
I would change him now so that the new manager has a full run up for the Euros, which should we qualify, are in 2 years time, also preparing for the next world cup in 2030.
also think it should be an English/British manager. His post match interview last night was indicative of someone that was emotionless to the passion and pain that those young players carried on their shoulders. If you look at the top four managers in the world cup, each one are from their respective countries, so they know and feel the emotions involved in representing their nation's national team. i also don't hold with the excuse that managers have to have won everything at club level - De la Feunte only managed at Bilbao and Espanyol, Scaloni was only the assistant at Sevilla.... It's only in England that we struggle with national identity due to the obvious reasons.
We also need the FA to decide what they want England to be. Identify a style, manner and method that suits our football and work towards teaching that method all the way down to grass roots football in schools. That is why Spain have succeeded. they have invested heavily from top to tail football methodology. Their manager was primed and identified way back when they decided that Bosque
was asked to step down. He's not a superstar, has not managed team football at a very high level, but understands what the method and style is that the nation expects.
Seriously peeved with the situation... we have so much talent but the squad never reflected the best of England. Change after the losers final on saturday please.... [Post edited 16 Jul 13:08]
|
I pretty much feel the same way. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.