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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 09:58 - Jul 17 by Superhoops2808
I really disagree with you on this as someone who lost a close family friend in the Falklands War
Fans will be Fans and to be honest I get that we have been no better in the past and you get thousands chanting its impossible to stop that and your earlier post I agreed with because I assumed you were referring to the fans.
But their players crossed a line by taking the banner and holding that up. It was wrong on so many levels and its not 'sour grapes' - They showed disrespect towards not only our armed forces that lost their lives but theirs too.
Having a banner in the stands can easily be avoided by the media but when a football team celebrating a big win holds it up in the full knowledge that it would be seen by all, it crosses the line and not something that England as a Football team have been a part of.
The Argentinian players knew exactly what they were doing of that I am sure, and when asked about it were not remorseful the following day either.
I feel that is what some people are upset about and rightly so IMO
Iโm sorry for your loss.I havenโt said that it was ok for the players to display that flag,and I also said that I hoped that FIFA would impose the maximum sanction possible for their actions. Itโs possible that they got caught up in the atmosphere of winning too much,and probably shouldโve known better.I thought some of them mightโve shown some remorse the day after too,but obviously not.
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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 10:48 - Jul 17 with 1958 views
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 10:41 - Jul 17 by daveB
Tuchels comments last night have done me in blaming English DNA for not controlling a game. He picked a squad for pace and physicality which is fine and I agree with it but his gameplan for 2 years has never been to control a game with the ball, he's not picked those sort of players so to then blame that on the exit is madness.
He is begging for the sack here and his payoff.
It certainly looks that way.
But reports online say the FA are sticking with him through to the Euros in 2028
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 10:00 - Jul 17 by Padulas_Shampoo
Disagree with this. You can't compare the behavior of drunken louts in pubs to that of millionaire footballers literally on a world stage. Any such political statement from a pot bellied prat in a pub is going to get a reach of a about 26 people. What those idiots did on the pitch will have been seen by half the globe. They have a responsibility as role models and they should not be using a fifa platform to make or imply political messages.
If you're going to excuse their players' behaviour by comparison of extreme public behavior of our nationals... you can do the same in reverse. Would it be excusable for English players to spit on and burn Argentinian flags on the pitch after the game? As that's what Argentinian idiots have been doing outside bars back home.
Part of me thinks, ignore don't rise to it! Actually, a big part of me does.
Maybe to bring some mirth to the situation. One of the first sporting engagements after the Falklands War, was when a mate's rugby team toured Argentina in 85, if IIRC.
Given that they were amateur, ageing, and probably not much more than a pub side, the tour garnered way more media interest than such an event ever should. So much so, that they were a live piece on the 'good morning show'. However, the doppy muchachos made a fatal error: they decided to interview the front row three!
The interview meandered through a range of assinine topics, before the interview started to up the ante, and mentioned Las Malvenas. Whereupon he was promptly stopped and my chum interjected with words to the effect: 'No, it's actually called the Falkland Islands, and if you want to change its name, then come and try taking the Isle of Wight off us, and then you can have them!'
The interview spluttered and the piece came to an abrupt end with a number of big and rotund old units pissin' themselves into camera!
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 10:45 - Jul 17 by Konk
Yeah, you'd think if the Malvinas/Falklands meant so much to them, they might play their football somewhere other than England on principle, but never mind.
I hadn't seen this weirdo Barco running across the pitch getting in England players' faces after their first goal, until yesterday. I was amazed to find out this t wat is expected to sign for Chelsea this summer. I know they don't have a monopoly on cu nts, but they do seem to sign a lot of them.
The thick twรกt obviously forgot or didn't realise that Bellingham speaks Spanish.
Well given they renewed his contract before the tournament, if they sacked him it would be a huge payout which I don't think even the FA could swallow.
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 09:15 - Jul 17 by ozexile
We'll have to agree to disagree cause Messi didn't start up high on Spence. He sat on the right in midfield the space where Gordon would pick him up and track him. Spence can't go into deep water there as the defence moves as a unit and when the balls on England's left he has to shuffle across. We should also put in a disclaimer and say they're the world champions and Messi has been finding holes in defences for over 20 years. You're never going to plug every hole cause football is such a fluid game. But IMO we could have defended so much better.
James Alcott explains it all brilliantly in my view and he pretty much agrees with you and expands it a bit.
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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 11:25 - Jul 17 with 1715 views
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 10:41 - Jul 17 by daveB
Tuchels comments last night have done me in blaming English DNA for not controlling a game. He picked a squad for pace and physicality which is fine and I agree with it but his gameplan for 2 years has never been to control a game with the ball, he's not picked those sort of players so to then blame that on the exit is madness.
He is begging for the sack here and his payoff.
He's doing what he did at Dortmund, Bayern, PSG and Chelsea, which is create a culture war and argument with stake holders that makes his position untenable. He'll want that money, and if he doesn't get it a home Euro 28 is a good chance to win something. Win/win for TT, but never accept blame. Bad for his brand. Blame the culture, nothing he can do about that.
Julien Laurens was very good on Football Daily yesterday about how he never accepts blame in his career. Even Nedum 'Mr Reasonable' Onuoha called the bullsht of his comments.
In a 26 man squad, he could have had players with the pace and physicality for DRC and Norway, but he could have also had the technical players to try and keep/progress the ball when holding a lead against Argentina (or Spain). He chose not to have those players.
On a really basic level, he fcked the midfield. England needed midfielders in this tournament, and he chose destroyers and defenders instead, then blamed the culture. I don't want Pep G, but I wonder what England midfield squad he'd have picked for example.
It's all making me think of QPR and how much I hope we sort the midfield with a couple of progressive midfield signings this summer.
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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 11:53 - Jul 17 with 1663 views
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 11:49 - Jul 17 by TK1
He's doing what he did at Dortmund, Bayern, PSG and Chelsea, which is create a culture war and argument with stake holders that makes his position untenable. He'll want that money, and if he doesn't get it a home Euro 28 is a good chance to win something. Win/win for TT, but never accept blame. Bad for his brand. Blame the culture, nothing he can do about that.
Julien Laurens was very good on Football Daily yesterday about how he never accepts blame in his career. Even Nedum 'Mr Reasonable' Onuoha called the bullsht of his comments.
In a 26 man squad, he could have had players with the pace and physicality for DRC and Norway, but he could have also had the technical players to try and keep/progress the ball when holding a lead against Argentina (or Spain). He chose not to have those players.
On a really basic level, he fcked the midfield. England needed midfielders in this tournament, and he chose destroyers and defenders instead, then blamed the culture. I don't want Pep G, but I wonder what England midfield squad he'd have picked for example.
It's all making me think of QPR and how much I hope we sort the midfield with a couple of progressive midfield signings this summer.
Yes itโs weird. I said at one point in the second half who have we got to bring on in midfield an and the answer was well no one really. Thatโs criminal.
I agree midfield is a vital area for us. We canโt go into the season with what we currently have.
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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 11:54 - Jul 17 with 1662 views
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 11:24 - Jul 17 by nix
James Alcott explains it all brilliantly in my view and he pretty much agrees with you and expands it a bit.
Thanks Nix. That does explain perfectly what I was saying. Especially from 11 mins onwards. It also emphasises IMO why Tuchel should go. He clearly panicked and just threw on as many defenders as he could thinking he could plug gaps. But the problem was higher up. I know he's not everyone's cup of tea but I'll always remember Big Ron saying. "if you're not scoring enough goals look at your midfield, and if you're conceeding too many goals, look at your midfield"
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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 12:09 - Jul 17 with 1628 views
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 11:25 - Jul 17 by Hayesender
Hypothetically, who would be your choice of England manager IF Tuchel goes?
I'm sure we'd all like it to be an Englishman, but there's not a great deal out there other than Eddie Howe or Frank Coventry ๐ค
I'd like to go back to the model the FA had pre-Bullingham, which is promote from within the age groups as with Southgate. It's a plan which works so well for Spain and Argentina in this tournament.
That would mean the very low-vibes Lee Carsley. Would be hugely unpopular and probably makes his position untenable from the start - as if there is one cultural affliction English football has, it's an addiction to star-power and setting money alight - but I think it would be the right thing to do.
He's actually got experience of winning international trophies as an England manager, which puts him in a select group, as well as working relationships with many of the players. But not sure England can ever have a bald head coach again.
If that's too sensible and dull for Bullingham, Lampard would make sense, more so than Howe. Players respect him, he knows international tournament football inside and out, very good with media, and with a good assistant can play progressive modern football. Still just about has all his hair.
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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 12:12 - Jul 17 with 1621 views
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 11:49 - Jul 17 by TK1
He's doing what he did at Dortmund, Bayern, PSG and Chelsea, which is create a culture war and argument with stake holders that makes his position untenable. He'll want that money, and if he doesn't get it a home Euro 28 is a good chance to win something. Win/win for TT, but never accept blame. Bad for his brand. Blame the culture, nothing he can do about that.
Julien Laurens was very good on Football Daily yesterday about how he never accepts blame in his career. Even Nedum 'Mr Reasonable' Onuoha called the bullsht of his comments.
In a 26 man squad, he could have had players with the pace and physicality for DRC and Norway, but he could have also had the technical players to try and keep/progress the ball when holding a lead against Argentina (or Spain). He chose not to have those players.
On a really basic level, he fcked the midfield. England needed midfielders in this tournament, and he chose destroyers and defenders instead, then blamed the culture. I don't want Pep G, but I wonder what England midfield squad he'd have picked for example.
It's all making me think of QPR and how much I hope we sort the midfield with a couple of progressive midfield signings this summer.
He'll stay until the Nations League and that will go badly in a group with Spain and Croatia. Will be like Capello he'll be gone within a year
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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 12:19 - Jul 17 with 1601 views
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 12:09 - Jul 17 by TK1
I'd like to go back to the model the FA had pre-Bullingham, which is promote from within the age groups as with Southgate. It's a plan which works so well for Spain and Argentina in this tournament.
That would mean the very low-vibes Lee Carsley. Would be hugely unpopular and probably makes his position untenable from the start - as if there is one cultural affliction English football has, it's an addiction to star-power and setting money alight - but I think it would be the right thing to do.
He's actually got experience of winning international trophies as an England manager, which puts him in a select group, as well as working relationships with many of the players. But not sure England can ever have a bald head coach again.
If that's too sensible and dull for Bullingham, Lampard would make sense, more so than Howe. Players respect him, he knows international tournament football inside and out, very good with media, and with a good assistant can play progressive modern football. Still just about has all his hair.
So much truth in this post.
It's a real shame Carsley had those dodgy games when in temporary charge because that should have been the succession plan. I also really loved Carsley's balls in picking Angel Gomes as he clearly understands the necessity for a midfielder like that and is equally understanding of the severe lack of English ones.
I don't understand why we constantly play our most technical players as far up the pitch as possible in this country. We've done it over and over and over and that's the reason we've never had an English Pirlo or Modric. Phil Foden for example has all the technical ability of either of those two. If he played 20 yards deeper consistently he could be the missing piece in the puzzle.
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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 12:42 - Jul 17 with 1501 views
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 11:49 - Jul 17 by TK1
He's doing what he did at Dortmund, Bayern, PSG and Chelsea, which is create a culture war and argument with stake holders that makes his position untenable. He'll want that money, and if he doesn't get it a home Euro 28 is a good chance to win something. Win/win for TT, but never accept blame. Bad for his brand. Blame the culture, nothing he can do about that.
Julien Laurens was very good on Football Daily yesterday about how he never accepts blame in his career. Even Nedum 'Mr Reasonable' Onuoha called the bullsht of his comments.
In a 26 man squad, he could have had players with the pace and physicality for DRC and Norway, but he could have also had the technical players to try and keep/progress the ball when holding a lead against Argentina (or Spain). He chose not to have those players.
On a really basic level, he fcked the midfield. England needed midfielders in this tournament, and he chose destroyers and defenders instead, then blamed the culture. I don't want Pep G, but I wonder what England midfield squad he'd have picked for example.
It's all making me think of QPR and how much I hope we sort the midfield with a couple of progressive midfield signings this summer.
I agree with your posts on this thread, and it would have made more sense to promote Carsley in a similar way to what Spain and Argentina have done with their age group coaches. The problem though would probably be if it didn't work immediately the media and fans would be moaning and would the FA have the bottle to see it through? In general though, management of everything is a problem in this country. Anything run by governments doesn't work, and most companies I've worked for it tends to be if people hang around long enough or are a good bloke they get promoted to manager. Just because they were reliable and good at their role doesn't make them a good manager. In other countries management is a rated subject/science. I think it's one of the fundamental reasons why we are struggling across the board, not just sports
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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 13:04 - Jul 17 with 1417 views
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 12:30 - Jul 17 by Padulas_Shampoo
So much truth in this post.
It's a real shame Carsley had those dodgy games when in temporary charge because that should have been the succession plan. I also really loved Carsley's balls in picking Angel Gomes as he clearly understands the necessity for a midfielder like that and is equally understanding of the severe lack of English ones.
I don't understand why we constantly play our most technical players as far up the pitch as possible in this country. We've done it over and over and over and that's the reason we've never had an English Pirlo or Modric. Phil Foden for example has all the technical ability of either of those two. If he played 20 yards deeper consistently he could be the missing piece in the puzzle.
He had that one game where he picked all the technical players, Palmer, bellingham, Foden, Palmer think Grealish may have started as well and we got beat. He was going along the right lines but needed a lot of help with the media stuff
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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 13:09 - Jul 17 with 1406 views
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 12:30 - Jul 17 by Padulas_Shampoo
So much truth in this post.
It's a real shame Carsley had those dodgy games when in temporary charge because that should have been the succession plan. I also really loved Carsley's balls in picking Angel Gomes as he clearly understands the necessity for a midfielder like that and is equally understanding of the severe lack of English ones.
I don't understand why we constantly play our most technical players as far up the pitch as possible in this country. We've done it over and over and over and that's the reason we've never had an English Pirlo or Modric. Phil Foden for example has all the technical ability of either of those two. If he played 20 yards deeper consistently he could be the missing piece in the puzzle.
That's such a good idea.
Imagine if you were *really* an elite coach who looked at the players available to use as England head coach. Then, rather than shrugging in the press conference and humiliating Foden by saying 'I don't know what his position is" and totally dropping him, you looked at the most technically gifted young player of his generation - who is a serial winner, big game player - who has slightly lost his way as his club changes formation, and asked what am I missing? A player who can dictate play.
Foden as a deep lying midfielder who collects the ball from CBs, full backs, links the play, keeps it ticking - doing the Pirlo or Rodri role for England would be revolutionary. England's midfield is great when it needs energy and to win the ball, but when it needs to keep or pass the ball it's a bit rubbish.
You could then perhaps use the friendlies to also look at Rice converted to CB where he's best suited at international football and where is playing with head up would be v useful, have Bellingham try his hand at Kane's version of the CF position (ie, not really a CF) for when Kane is injured or retired, try Palmer with him in the 10...
Suddenly you are using those friendlies not to humiliate some players, but to actually try and affect that culture that you complain about. Because the tools are actually there to progress England, perhaps in a way they haven't always been.
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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 13:41 - Jul 17 with 1310 views
Isn't there also a massive disconnect between Tuchel and what's been the whole direction of travel for English elite football for a very long time now?
Going back at least as far as Eriksson taking over from Keegan, the big picture push from the FA itself was meant to be finally getting rid of Mike Bassett/Howard Wilkinson caveman football and producing young, technical players of the kind we supposedly never did, and which therefore doomed us in tournaments.
(Actually, most famously with Hoddle as a player, there'd always been as much of an issue with managers not picking them, but that's another story...)
20 years later, we do actually end up with a lot of the kind of clever, technical players a lot of resources had gone into producing โ only to hire a manager who then brings on Dan Burn instead.
(There again, in fairness to Tuchel, Hodgson and Capello didn't exactly specialise in gourmet football either.)
[Post edited 17 Jul 14:00]
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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 14:12 - Jul 17 with 1218 views
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 13:30 - Jul 17 by TK1
That's such a good idea.
Imagine if you were *really* an elite coach who looked at the players available to use as England head coach. Then, rather than shrugging in the press conference and humiliating Foden by saying 'I don't know what his position is" and totally dropping him, you looked at the most technically gifted young player of his generation - who is a serial winner, big game player - who has slightly lost his way as his club changes formation, and asked what am I missing? A player who can dictate play.
Foden as a deep lying midfielder who collects the ball from CBs, full backs, links the play, keeps it ticking - doing the Pirlo or Rodri role for England would be revolutionary. England's midfield is great when it needs energy and to win the ball, but when it needs to keep or pass the ball it's a bit rubbish.
You could then perhaps use the friendlies to also look at Rice converted to CB where he's best suited at international football and where is playing with head up would be v useful, have Bellingham try his hand at Kane's version of the CF position (ie, not really a CF) for when Kane is injured or retired, try Palmer with him in the 10...
Suddenly you are using those friendlies not to humiliate some players, but to actually try and affect that culture that you complain about. Because the tools are actually there to progress England, perhaps in a way they haven't always been.
Foden would be spectacularly ill suited to playing deep lying play maker. He's a terrible tackler and far too slight. Rodri and Pirlo work cos they put their boot in. Rodri has made 22 tackles in this world cup - Foden made 34 in all competitions last season
Rice's biggest asset is his engine which enables his relentless pressing, putting him at centre back totally nullifies that, no?
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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 14:16 - Jul 17 with 1200 views
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 13:54 - Jul 17 by DannytheR
Isn't there also a massive disconnect between Tuchel and what's been the whole direction of travel for English elite football for a very long time now?
Going back at least as far as Eriksson taking over from Keegan, the big picture push from the FA itself was meant to be finally getting rid of Mike Bassett/Howard Wilkinson caveman football and producing young, technical players of the kind we supposedly never did, and which therefore doomed us in tournaments.
(Actually, most famously with Hoddle as a player, there'd always been as much of an issue with managers not picking them, but that's another story...)
20 years later, we do actually end up with a lot of the kind of clever, technical players a lot of resources had gone into producing โ only to hire a manager who then brings on Dan Burn instead.
(There again, in fairness to Tuchel, Hodgson and Capello didn't exactly specialise in gourmet football either.)
[Post edited 17 Jul 14:00]
The irony of appointing overseas coaches is we always get ones who want to play 4-4-2 up and at them which is what we were supposed to be getting away from. Even Southgate was trying to build teams who kept the ball in vast majority of games.
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England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 14:18 - Jul 17 with 1187 views
England Thread ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ on 14:12 - Jul 17 by robith
Foden would be spectacularly ill suited to playing deep lying play maker. He's a terrible tackler and far too slight. Rodri and Pirlo work cos they put their boot in. Rodri has made 22 tackles in this world cup - Foden made 34 in all competitions last season
Rice's biggest asset is his engine which enables his relentless pressing, putting him at centre back totally nullifies that, no?
Rice's problem was he was injured and ill so was miles off it in the last few games.
I'd agree Foden is not the answer in a deeper role, you have Mainoo and Wharton who can do that even Angel Gomes who looked decent under Carsley.
One of England bigger issues is lack of creating chances most of the time even when we have the ball we don't create a great deal despite having all these creative players.
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