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A few different opinions I've seen. Having seen footage of the incident, my feeling is that if the laws say that's a sending off, the game really has "gone".
Cirkin has stretched to get his foot to the ball. He's reached it and the ball is clearly gone before the Preston player gets anywhere near the scene. I can't see any evidence that Cirkin is out of control, and if anything I felt the Preston player collided into Cirkin, and it might even have been a foul the other way.
Cirkin's first touch was poor and no need to lunge in given where their player was. If it was the other way round we wouldn't even be debating it. Stephan said little about it post match which says a lot.
I haven't seen the replay, but I was at the game today. I didn't think it was a red initially but there was a noticeable crunching noise when the players came together that I could hear from the upper loft which couldve swayed it. Really not sure if it was a red or not, but i thought the ref was fairly poor. Some of the decisions he gave both ways were weird (from my view point anyway). No idea why Saito was booked in the 2nd half, there was corner we got that seemed to touch no PNE player. The only thing i respected him for was the corner he gave us for the GK taking the piss with the goal kicks.
[Post edited 19 Sep 21:09]
Really weird mate. Upper loft myself and missed most of the challenge if you know what I mean - eyes all over the place, but I mentioned hearing the thud where two players get to the ball at the same time. I probably am very wrong because I can’t pick the bones from that challenge from what I’ve seen online.
Looked bad at normal speed, but watched slowly a couple of times and it was not a red. I don't blame the ref, little frustrated with the linesman though, think it will be rescinded.
It reminded me of a tackle on Adel years ago in the centre circle and the player that clattered into him at a similar angle and got a straight red. I don't think (although don't know) that the club will appeal it. I think he knew he was in trouble immediately and if you are that sure you were in complete control you hang around to at least protest your innocence. Dennis walked straight off. He knew he'd mistimed it and gone in pretty hard. I think we have to accept that although there was absolutely no malice or intent that it was a bad one. If that happens to one of our own we'd expect the ref to reach for a red. But let's see what the club does. On the upside Adamson is unbelievable and right now, actually better. I am sure Cirkin will learn from this.
Looked bad at normal speed, but watched slowly a couple of times and it was not a red. I don't blame the ref, little frustrated with the linesman though, think it will be rescinded.
Yeah, someone shared a reply with me at HT, not the same angle as the Sky highlights and the boot he goes in with never makes contact with the Preston player. It is high (after striking the ball first and cleanly) but it misses their fella’s leg entirely. Cirkin’s body then collides with his leg as both players’ momentum carries them into each other.
It isn’t a red card. The player’s reaction and the Preston players’ reactions got him sent off. He strikes the ball with his laces in a hard kicking motion whilst sliding and as will happen when you do that your foot follows through on the up, but he does not catch their lad at all with that foot.
I felt a red was very harsh at the time, and having seen that reply, it’s the wrong decision. It’s not even a foul. He gets their first. Strikes it cleanly first and his studs do not go high into any part of their player. They just come together. It looks a lot worse in real time than it was. And I felt it was harsh in real time.
Did anyone else also note that their fella wasn’t asked to leave the field to return after having treatment? Basic rules not enforced. And he took the free kick!
At first I thought this was not a red. But even if you get the ball first, you can still get a red if it's high or reckless.
Cirkin overplays the ball and then slides his foot toward it, which is played into the PNE player. It seems just a clash of legs after the ball has been played.
However, in slow motion, you can see the studs are up on the follow-through of that play/tackle. It's a nasty tackle.
You can watch it here. But before letting it play at 28 seconds in, pause it and then change the play speed down to the lowest, which is 0.25:
You can now see he went full studs in. It's a Red because of that.
Yeah, someone shared a reply with me at HT, not the same angle as the Sky highlights and the boot he goes in with never makes contact with the Preston player. It is high (after striking the ball first and cleanly) but it misses their fella’s leg entirely. Cirkin’s body then collides with his leg as both players’ momentum carries them into each other.
It isn’t a red card. The player’s reaction and the Preston players’ reactions got him sent off. He strikes the ball with his laces in a hard kicking motion whilst sliding and as will happen when you do that your foot follows through on the up, but he does not catch their lad at all with that foot.
I felt a red was very harsh at the time, and having seen that reply, it’s the wrong decision. It’s not even a foul. He gets their first. Strikes it cleanly first and his studs do not go high into any part of their player. They just come together. It looks a lot worse in real time than it was. And I felt it was harsh in real time.
Did anyone else also note that their fella wasn’t asked to leave the field to return after having treatment? Basic rules not enforced. And he took the free kick!
I don’t think a player has to leave the field if they’re injured in an incident that leads to yellow or red card,but it depends on the ref’s discretion.
Yeah, someone shared a reply with me at HT, not the same angle as the Sky highlights and the boot he goes in with never makes contact with the Preston player. It is high (after striking the ball first and cleanly) but it misses their fella’s leg entirely. Cirkin’s body then collides with his leg as both players’ momentum carries them into each other.
It isn’t a red card. The player’s reaction and the Preston players’ reactions got him sent off. He strikes the ball with his laces in a hard kicking motion whilst sliding and as will happen when you do that your foot follows through on the up, but he does not catch their lad at all with that foot.
I felt a red was very harsh at the time, and having seen that reply, it’s the wrong decision. It’s not even a foul. He gets their first. Strikes it cleanly first and his studs do not go high into any part of their player. They just come together. It looks a lot worse in real time than it was. And I felt it was harsh in real time.
Did anyone else also note that their fella wasn’t asked to leave the field to return after having treatment? Basic rules not enforced. And he took the free kick!
At the time I thought it was a red and to ge fair to the ref (who I thought was poor) he saw it once in real time and got no help from the lino. The Preston players reaction didnt help. It was an unwise challenge from Cirkin anyway. Overall I've no real complaints. With the follow through and studs up I'm not even sure VAR (heaven forbid) would have overturned it.
Never a Red, Cirkin clearly gets the ball and the player comes in late on him, don’t think Cirkin was out of control or showing studs. Unbelievable decision, Ref was definitely intimidated by the Preston players in his face!
This.It was terrible decision that probably cost us 2 points and mean we are likely to lose Cirkin for 3 games. The inexperienced Ref looked a way off the situation and to be ruled by the Preston players. We really should appeal that, it wasn't even yellow.
I don't think it's a red, but I don't think you win an appeal, there's enough in that challenge that falls into the grey area of subjectivity. I was watching the Preston stream, their rather biased commentators were pretty certain we should have had a penalty when their player handled Saito's cut back. The ref did seem to be guessing at times.
I don't think it's a red, but I don't think you win an appeal, there's enough in that challenge that falls into the grey area of subjectivity. I was watching the Preston stream, their rather biased commentators were pretty certain we should have had a penalty when their player handled Saito's cut back. The ref did seem to be guessing at times.
The problem lies in the word reckless which is subjective and the use of VAR. Referees are now much more comfortable in producing a red card knowing VAR will check it. Unfortunately they seem to forget it is not used in the Championship. I think it is not unreasonable to argue that VAR might have downgraded it to a yellow.
It's certainly a debatable one, as this thread showed and in the ground at the time.
From where I was stood in the Loft, thought it was a red card immediately, but some of the others around me disagreed. He did indeed not make a lot of contact with the player, but I don't think that's relevant, is it? He could easily have done because it was very reckless. Doesn't need to be blood on the pitch to be a red. Bloke in front of me thought it was a red, person behind thought no way. Mate watching at home thought it was a little harsh. Not sure there is a clear right answer here!
I know it was debatable, but I don't think it was an awful decision. I would have been screaming for a red the other way around.
Never a red, Preston players all shouting in the ref's face and it persuaded him it was serious, when it wasn't. Cirkin got the ball and the Preston player went into him
First thing I saw, a gaggle of furious PNE players descending on the ref. We've still git a lot to learn about the dark arts.
Seen the replays . Thought it was yellow. PNE players probably swayed the referee into a red . The irony of last years problem child of the full back positions and now Lamptey , Kemper and Cirkin all likely to be missing for, on paper our toughest game of the season against West Ham . However Adamson has been a real plus this season and doesn’t look out of place at this level at all.
Seen the replays . Thought it was yellow. PNE players probably swayed the referee into a red . The irony of last years problem child of the full back positions and now Lamptey , Kemper and Cirkin all likely to be missing for, on paper our toughest game of the season against West Ham . However Adamson has been a real plus this season and doesn’t look out of place at this level at all.
I thought Kemper was meant to be back this international break. It’s a massive opportunity for him to make the left back spot his own. If he performs well, Cirkin won’t get back in.
Yeah, someone shared a reply with me at HT, not the same angle as the Sky highlights and the boot he goes in with never makes contact with the Preston player. It is high (after striking the ball first and cleanly) but it misses their fella’s leg entirely. Cirkin’s body then collides with his leg as both players’ momentum carries them into each other.
It isn’t a red card. The player’s reaction and the Preston players’ reactions got him sent off. He strikes the ball with his laces in a hard kicking motion whilst sliding and as will happen when you do that your foot follows through on the up, but he does not catch their lad at all with that foot.
I felt a red was very harsh at the time, and having seen that reply, it’s the wrong decision. It’s not even a foul. He gets their first. Strikes it cleanly first and his studs do not go high into any part of their player. They just come together. It looks a lot worse in real time than it was. And I felt it was harsh in real time.
Did anyone else also note that their fella wasn’t asked to leave the field to return after having treatment? Basic rules not enforced. And he took the free kick!
If the Club think the sending off was wrong then they will appeal.....100%. It would be very wrong if they did not and the player would have some input too.
It was a sending off, it did not matter what the PNE players did. His only defence would have been if the PNE player who was involved in the tackle got up and did not stay on the ground.
Regarding the player not going off after treatment....I am not sure that he needed to leave the field of play because he was fouled by a sending off offence. I am not sure - I'm sure Norf knows.
First thing I saw, a gaggle of furious PNE players descending on the ref. We've still git a lot to learn about the dark arts.
100% (bizarrely got down voted for saying that by the kind of person who would suck up to Clive if he said the same thing) - we are still a bit too 'nice'. Ronnie got into an argument with a Preston player in the second half, which was good to see.
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