| England Thread 🏴 19:29 - Oct 17 with 258836 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
About time we had one I think? |  | | |  |
| England Thread 🏴 on 23:54 - Jul 15 with 2707 views | PhilmyRs |
I just don’t get it though. You go ultra defensive, but you still have to have that out ball, that hoof up front and some legs to chase. We had nothing. We had better players, no one will convince me there’s were better although you will easily convince me they were more of a team that wanted it more. Southgate was hated for his negative approach, this was soooo much worse in a game he was supposedly made for. |  | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 23:56 - Jul 15 with 2696 views | CamberleyR |
| England Thread 🏴 on 23:31 - Jul 15 by Northernr |
Southgate would have got absolutely annihilated for what just happened there. |
It's baffling though. For an hour up till we scored, he'd got his tactics absolutely spot on. |  |
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| England Thread 🏴 on 23:58 - Jul 15 with 2657 views | Northernr |
| England Thread 🏴 on 23:45 - Jul 15 by Stainrod |
Two apparently very good managers have not believed in England.
Was their lack of faith correct?
Guess that will be the question.
And more crucially, how can we dominate a midfield? |
We were dominating. We were dominating the whole thing. Came through the inevitable 20 minutes of cheating and gamesmanship, referee intimidation. Started to play. Played really well. Took the lead. Deserved to take the lead.
And then you've got them right where you want them. Keep playing your game, keep attacking, spring them on the counter as they come at you and the space opens up.
Instead... that. Ten men on the goal line and pray for time.
Can you imagine if that had finished 1-1? How exactly did we envisage extra time going? We're going to do that for another half an hour are we?
Back in my hotel room and fuming. |  | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 00:00 - Jul 16 with 2624 views | bosh67 |
| England Thread 🏴 on 23:34 - Jul 15 by Northernr |
Compare how Spain approached a 1-0 lead in a semi-final against a supposedly superior, dangerous team last night. |
Yes if you don't keep the ball and take the game to them, like Spain did to France then it's almost impossible to protect a lead against a team that has that kind of forward line. Mind you France were shite all game to be fair. [Post edited 16 Jul 0:02]
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| England Thread 🏴 on 00:01 - Jul 16 with 2602 views | ericgen34 |
I feel for you lot. Commiserations. Much tougher to take than our no show last night. Hoping Spain wins now. Argentina are such a difficult team to like |  | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 00:15 - Jul 16 with 2462 views | FredManRave |
It's all so tiresome. I was so pissed off after the result and then came on here to catch up with the 5 pages of updates which basically agree with everything I've said or felt tonight.
I think it was summed up with a question on the BBC post game that defined standards;
"Before the tournament started, would you have accepted England losing to Argentina in the semi final of the World Cup"?
Seriously?! Just stay away from me with that mentality. |  |
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| England Thread 🏴 on 00:15 - Jul 16 with 2464 views | NorthantsHoop |
Substitutions for Argentina made them better and energised our subs were just put in to try and hold on. We missed a real opportunity to win this game because of a lack of strategy to win, holding on against Argentina with form for coming back late in games was and has proved a bit of a disaster again in World Cup semi finals, think we did the same against Croatia in 2018, let them off the hook as well. [Post edited 16 Jul 0:15]
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| England Thread 🏴 on 00:17 - Jul 16 with 2446 views | SK_hoops |
| England Thread 🏴 on 00:01 - Jul 16 by ericgen34 |
I feel for you lot. Commiserations. Much tougher to take than our no show last night. Hoping Spain wins now. Argentina are such a difficult team to like |
Their celebration for their equaliser was probably the most infuriating thing I've ever seen, well apart from our tactics after our goal. | | | |
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| England Thread 🏴 on 00:18 - Jul 16 with 2432 views | Discodroids |
| England Thread 🏴 on 23:58 - Jul 15 by Northernr |
We were dominating. We were dominating the whole thing. Came through the inevitable 20 minutes of cheating and gamesmanship, referee intimidation. Started to play. Played really well. Took the lead. Deserved to take the lead.
And then you've got them right where you want them. Keep playing your game, keep attacking, spring them on the counter as they come at you and the space opens up.
Instead... that. Ten men on the goal line and pray for time.
Can you imagine if that had finished 1-1? How exactly did we envisage extra time going? We're going to do that for another half an hour are we?
Back in my hotel room and fuming. |
x1000
x10000
x100000
Devastated. |  |
| Where there's a will - and there is a will - there's a way - and there is a way. |
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| England Thread 🏴 on 00:21 - Jul 16 with 2410 views | kensalriser |
I really hope Tuchel resigns. I reckon there's something like 90% agreement on how and why he got it wrong.
England weren't beaten by a better team, they were beaten by a better manager. |  |
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| England Thread 🏴 on 00:26 - Jul 16 with 2371 views | bosh67 |
| England Thread 🏴 on 00:21 - Jul 16 by kensalriser |
I really hope Tuchel resigns. I reckon there's something like 90% agreement on how and why he got it wrong.
England weren't beaten by a better team, they were beaten by a better manager. |
Yes indeed but really do we want the manager to resign? Honestly we battled through this tournament and yes he got it wrong after we went one up but I think, and this is no disrespect to Southgate, who made us a lot better, but we had been much better in this tournament than in so many others.
We were beaten by the better team tonight. We made it easier for them but they were just better. | |
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| England Thread 🏴 on 00:43 - Jul 16 with 2301 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| England Thread 🏴 on 00:01 - Jul 16 by ericgen34 |
I feel for you lot. Commiserations. Much tougher to take than our no show last night. Hoping Spain wins now. Argentina are such a difficult team to like |
They're great. Skillful but also shithousers par excellence. They've always been like that in my lifetime - maybe went a bit more towards the latter in 1990 but they've always had extremely technical players who were also a bit c***ish, exemplified by Diego's two goals in 1986. Wonderful kit, passionate fans. Going to be a fantastic final.
I echo the above though - England had one foot in the final. Argentina's defence is suspect and England have plenty of pacey players who can get round their full backs and get a cross in. Incredible that Tuchel didn't go for the second goal. | | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 00:48 - Jul 16 with 2292 views | DejR_vu |
There’s no way TT said, “Right lads, we’re one up so from hereon give them the ball back every time we get it, sit on the 18 yard box, and let Messi do what he likes”
He gave them 17 minutes after the goal before he made a change and we had 12% possession in that time. He left it another 10 and they were all over us, hit the post. Not one of them thought it might be an idea to do something to stop the corner routine where Messi played it short and then received it straight back 20 yards from our closest defender. Absolutely brain dead. He had to do something. There’s nothing on the bench to wrestle back possession in midfield, he had to do something so he tried to shore it up at the back
That’s 100% on the players. Kane, Bellingham and Rice apart, they’re dross and don't have the mentality to win big games. Same every time. [Post edited 16 Jul 0:58]
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| England Thread 🏴 on 01:48 - Jul 16 with 2182 views | Match82 |
| England Thread 🏴 on 00:48 - Jul 16 by DejR_vu |
There’s no way TT said, “Right lads, we’re one up so from hereon give them the ball back every time we get it, sit on the 18 yard box, and let Messi do what he likes”
He gave them 17 minutes after the goal before he made a change and we had 12% possession in that time. He left it another 10 and they were all over us, hit the post. Not one of them thought it might be an idea to do something to stop the corner routine where Messi played it short and then received it straight back 20 yards from our closest defender. Absolutely brain dead. He had to do something. There’s nothing on the bench to wrestle back possession in midfield, he had to do something so he tried to shore it up at the back
That’s 100% on the players. Kane, Bellingham and Rice apart, they’re dross and don't have the mentality to win big games. Same every time. [Post edited 16 Jul 0:58]
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There's 10 different ways he could have made subs to help.
If your players have 17 minutes after the goal and had 12% possession then that's 7 minutes after you could have done something and the solution isnt "put more defenders on"
Your job as a manager is to put his players in a position to succeed. If you think he did that then we're watching a different game. We're well past the Harry Redknapp days of "fackin run around a bit" and put it all on the players |  | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 02:49 - Jul 16 with 2109 views | ozexile |
| England Thread 🏴 on 01:48 - Jul 16 by Match82 |
There's 10 different ways he could have made subs to help.
If your players have 17 minutes after the goal and had 12% possession then that's 7 minutes after you could have done something and the solution isnt "put more defenders on"
Your job as a manager is to put his players in a position to succeed. If you think he did that then we're watching a different game. We're well past the Harry Redknapp days of "fackin run around a bit" and put it all on the players |
He's trying to absolve himself of any blame. Ridiculous subs. They're 2 centre half were both on yellows. Run at them. Get Saka on, keep Gordon on. Let them worry about us. We completely surrendered the game. Gave Messi the whole field to operate in and he duly obliged. Brain numbing | | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 03:20 - Jul 16 with 2076 views | nix |
| England Thread 🏴 on 23:31 - Jul 15 by Northernr |
Southgate would have got absolutely annihilated for what just happened there. |
But he is getting annihilated. Everyone I’ve spoken to blames him and his negative tactics. The infuriating part is it’s the same reason we wanted to get rid of Southgate, a carbon copy of the Euros against Italy where we tried to hold onto a 1-0 lead, except we were playing an arguably worse team then.
As PPs have said we could all see it wasn’t working and we needed an outlet from defence but what did he do? Buttressed the defence. I’m the first to say I don’t understand the intricacies of tactics but bloody hell it was obvious after a couple of close shaves and zero possession what we needed. |  | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 05:30 - Jul 16 with 1928 views | DWQPR |
I’m on holiday at the moment three hours ahead of the UK and the game kicked off last night at 11pm local time. I could have stayed up to watch it but I couldn’t be bothered as it was obvious what would happen. Tuchel is no better than Southgate. This World Cup apart from the odd 15 minutes here and there England have been bang average. Tuchel picked the wrong squad and the biggest laugh was when at the start Livramento got injured he had a chance to bring in another right back so what did he do? Brought in another of his North Battersea favourites in Chalobah, a centre half who didn’t see any minutes at right back at all. Cûnt. The squad was unbalanced and we have a number of players who really are overrated. I’d get rid of Tuchel tomorrow after reading both the reports and also thoughts of posters on this thread.
In addition to this the biggest culprits are the FA. What Southgate gave them was eight years to prepare a succession line like Spain has done, and look where their former youth team coach has taken them! They brought in Lee Carsley on a caretaker basis and apart from one game where he looked to experiment with a false nine and lost to Greece, which he put right in the return fixture, the football was of a far better and progressive quality. Tuchel has lost at home to both Senagal and Japan for gods sake and struggled against Uruguay. Struggled to break down Andorra both home and away in qualifying, he ain’t a good manager. He is nothing special in a time when even German managers are average. England should have stick with Carsley as he knew the young players coming through and he as successful with them. As Southgate did.
They now need to get Eddie Howe at any price and properly invest in younger coaches that can get into managing PL sides and making a name for themselves. Until then England will continue to be flat track bully boys, qualify for tournaments and then trip their was through until they meet a half decent side as they have done so since 2018. I’m bloody glad I spent the hours between 11pm and 1am last night getting some good sleep. Much better use of my time. | |
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| England Thread 🏴 on 06:16 - Jul 16 with 1865 views | 7374Ranger |
| England Thread 🏴 on 23:58 - Jul 15 by Northernr |
We were dominating. We were dominating the whole thing. Came through the inevitable 20 minutes of cheating and gamesmanship, referee intimidation. Started to play. Played really well. Took the lead. Deserved to take the lead.
And then you've got them right where you want them. Keep playing your game, keep attacking, spring them on the counter as they come at you and the space opens up.
Instead... that. Ten men on the goal line and pray for time.
Can you imagine if that had finished 1-1? How exactly did we envisage extra time going? We're going to do that for another half an hour are we?
Back in my hotel room and fuming. |
Totally agree. I was saying to my son, why is he taking Gordon off and replacing him with Konsa? England need him to attack the full back as Argentina will push forward in search for an equaliser.
Argentina where there for the taking. Yes, they are good going forward with world class players like Messi, Fernandez, Lautaro, Alarez and McAllister, but they can also be got at as proved with Gordon's goal. The more they attacked the more space would have been created for Gordon, Morgan and Bellingham or replacements like Saka and Rashford to exploit. Instead Tuchel brought on subs like Konsa and Burn to sit back and hope for a repeat of the Alamo attitude against Mexico.
Absolute defensive madness to do what Tuchel did. It was the same defensive negativity as when Southgate sat his team back in the Euros final against Italy. | | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 06:33 - Jul 16 with 1824 views | joe90 |
I’m pleased we got to the semi, it’s a great achievement, but I’m absolutely gutted to lose to Argentina. I can’t stand them. No class, you can see that at the end with their banner about the Falklands and their racist chanting after the France game. Putting all that aside, they were better and won the game fair and square.
We can talk about subs and sitting back, but even if we had chased a second goal there’s no guarantee it would have worked. Just look at previous games and how difficult it’s been for us and to think we’re going to punish the world champions? I assume that’s what Tuchel was thinking. Based on the previous game I would have had Saka on. Was he injured? But there we go, what do I know?
This England team have relied on fitness and individual moments of brilliance, not team cohesion. It’s a strange squad that limped through an even stranger tournament and have done very well to get to the semi finals. I’m glad it’s over now and I won’t be watching the final on Sunday. I do feel bitter, bitter we didn’t go down fighting. [Post edited 16 Jul 6:39]
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| England Thread 🏴 on 07:30 - Jul 16 with 1654 views | paulparker |
| England Thread 🏴 on 00:26 - Jul 16 by bosh67 |
Yes indeed but really do we want the manager to resign? Honestly we battled through this tournament and yes he got it wrong after we went one up but I think, and this is no disrespect to Southgate, who made us a lot better, but we had been much better in this tournament than in so many others.
We were beaten by the better team tonight. We made it easier for them but they were just better. |
He should be sacked
He was bought in to get us over the line , this was not a manager to come in and look at the next 8 years , it was for this World Cup , he failed and failed miserably, the squad he picked was poor
With to many injury prone players, Saka want even fit and don’t get me started on Jordan Henderson or Maudewke
As northern said we dominated it up to scoring and then we just sat back , his in game subs are poor
We may as well of kept Southgate it would of been the same outcome
The FA have already bottled it and given him another contract
I really do not want to see a next tournament with Harry Kane dropping deeper than John Stones |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| England Thread 🏴 on 07:45 - Jul 16 with 1611 views | stevec |
Flights booked, ESTA sorted, tickets for the final, five minutes to go and then that happens. Gutted.
We’d been QPR’d.
It’s the mentality of a team that has an overwhelming fear of failure.
Like every other football fan, it was hard to believe our approach after dominating the game.
We had Messi doing his thing where we wanted him, in his own half. At his age he wasn’t going to damage us from there. Then we invite him in, down our left and give him the freedom of the pitch.
Big red flag when we had one chance to break through a Bellingham run and none of our players had the legs to stay with him.
We had that rarity of two genuine match winners. Tuchel was right packing the side for this tournament with water carriers, let them do their bit and leave the winning to Kane and Bellingham. To suddenly stop doing what worked unfathomable. |  | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 07:52 - Jul 16 with 1582 views | Paddyhoops |
Tuchel won’t last long . Henry Winter on the radio this morning going for his throat . Calls will only grow for his resignation.
Should have stayed in the front foot and probably would have got it over the line but even then Argentina could have got back in the game .
They have quality players and Messi did what Messi does . Goes missing and then explodes into life .
A lot more memories to cherish which is more than I can say but ultimately fell short . | | | |
| England Thread 🏴 on 08:01 - Jul 16 with 1534 views | Gloucs_R |
Just my opinion but that's a really weak England team.
At the back, poor.
Keeper, honestly, is that the best we can produce? Good shot stopper but doesn't command his box and gets caught out repeatedly
Can't cross, how many times in this tournament have we hit the first man??
Poor set pieces
Very few leaders
On the plus side Jude is world class and the next England captain.
Kane will retire from international football now I suspect. Which may allow us to playa different way. Not knocking him, one of the best goal scorers on a generation.
In summary, that's not a world class team. They need to learn to move the ball far more quickly.
Just gutted we went out to the fking Argies! [Post edited 16 Jul 8:02]
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| England Thread 🏴 on 08:04 - Jul 16 with 1505 views | OakR |
It's just so frstrating.
Lots of players were dead on their feet - only one sub when we needed more, and not the right subs at all.
I just don't understand coaches sometimes - literally everyone can see we were tired, and we needed more outlets. We were going to concede otherwise.
It is just frustrating as the game was potentailly there for us.
We know Argentina are a great team and no issue losing to them if we've tried to match them and failed, but I just can;t understand how we've decided to change what we were doing, which was working.
It's the hope that kills you have never been a more true statement. [Post edited 16 Jul 8:07]
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| England Thread 🏴 on 08:11 - Jul 16 with 1437 views | Rangersw12 |
Absolutely gutted and all we have to look forward to is another shit boring season with QPR | | | |
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